During draft weekend, there was plenty of rumors and rumblings about Carolina Hurricanes players who were allegedly on the trading block. Ironically, the two players most regularly mentioned, Jeff Skinner and Justin Faulk, were not involved when the team made a blockbuster trading Noah Hanifin and Elias Lindholm for Dougie Hamilton, Micheal Ferland and defense prospect Adam Fox.
In just over a week since the 2018 NHL Draft weekend, Skinner and Faulk’s names have continued to make the rounds in trade circles. But the big news this weekend was the start of free agency, the John Tavares sweepstakes and teams also chasing a few other higher-end players available. But as of Monday, John Tavares has landed and the free agent pool is largely depleted. Could it be time for teams who still need help to reengage on the possibility of adding Skinner for scoring or Faulk to fill out a top 4 on defense?
The team has been doing some posturing suggesting that it would be happy to enter the 2018-19 season with both players still on the roster. While that is by no means impossible, I will be surprised if neither of Faulk or Skinner is dealt before training camp. Despite shipping out a large volume of depth players, thus far the team has cut exactly no one from its official leadership team nor has it really parted ways with a true top half of the roster player (only Lindholm is debatable). As such, I think the team has at least one more big deal in its future before the start of training camp to truly change leadership and also change the makeup of the roster.
Needs
My math says that in an ideal world the Carolina Hurricanes would still like to add:
1) A left shot top 4 defenseman
As part of the posturing, Don Waddell talked about Brett Pesce playing on his off side with Justin Faulk. Sure it could work, but this seems more like a hope than a plan. Pesce has not played any significant amount on his off side in three years in the NHL. And at last check, Faulk was far from being the steady and solid top 4 who could help make such an imperfect situation work. Though Waddell is saying otherwise to avoid as much as possible having to trade Faulk from a position of weakness.
2) More offense
I think that is true regardless of if Skinner is actually traded. The team finished in the bottom third of the NHL in scoring in 2017-18, so I think it needs more offensive with or without Jeff Skinner on the opening day roster.
Domino deals
A left defenseman
1) Calvin de Haan from free agency
I continue to think that overpaying slightly in salary to avoid having to give up anything at all in terms of trade assets is an interesting possibility. Is it possible that the reason de Haan is still unsigned is because the Hurricanes have a top bid on the table tentatively but dependent on Faulk being traded first? One can hope. De Haan is exactly the type of steady and efficient defenseman who could complement Hamilton.
2) Torey Krug via trade for Jeff Skinner
Having missed out on John Tavares, the Boston Bruins are allegedly shopping for scoring help. In addition, they are supposedly shopping Torey Krug. Krug is an offensively capable top 4, left shot defenseman who puts up points. He would fit with trying to boost the scoring by upgrading the back end.
3) Jake Muzzin via trade for Jeff Skinner
When the Los Angeles Kings added Ilya Kovalchuk, the expectation was that any interest that the Kings might have had for Skinner would dissipate. But the Kings supposedly had a deal in place for Max Pacioretty who is also a left wing who can score, so might they still be looking for another scorer like Skinner? Like Krug, Jake Muzzin has two years remaining on his current contract, so such a deal would provide at least two years of help.
Scoring help
The free agent options to add offense at this time are slim. The more likely path to adding offense would be trading Justin Faulk. Skinner is also a possibility but it would be odd for a team to trade higher-end offense just to replace it and basically tread water.
1) Nazem Kadri via trade for Justin Faulk
Faulk to Toronto who needs blue line help comes around every once in awhile in trade discussion. I think everyone would be thrilled with William Nylander, but I think he is part of the core that forms the top 2 lines. Kasperi Kapanen’s name comes up too, but as a player who has yet to really establish himself as a top half of the roster player at the NHL level, I view him as a prospect with upside and a fairly high floor. But what about Nazem Kadri? He is a useful player and source of scoring depth, but with Tavares in the fold for $11 million per year, Nylander likely to get $7 million when he re-signs this summer and Matthews likely to be paid something in the neighborhood of Tavares, is it possible that a good $4 million per year center is not a luxury that the Maple Leafs can afford starting in 2019-20 when Matthews’ new contract kicks in. And the blue line continues to be the weakest part of the Leafs’ lineup. So if they view Faulk as a capable right shot top 4 defenseman, these two players could be a starting point for a deal that makes sense on a couple levels. I am not sure how Hurricanes fans would feel about having Kadri in a Hurricanes uniform, but the team’s leadership did say it wanted to become more difficult to play against. Kadri could be part of that initiative.
2) Ryan Nugent-Hopkins via trade for Justin Faulk
No set of Hurricanes trade possibilities would be complete without at least one ‘Oilers forward for Faulk entry’. Ryan Nugent-Hopkins would provide a modest scoring boost, but maybe equally importantly, he would do so in the form of a good all-around center who could solidify the lineup a bit.
Trying to build chains of moves
Justin Faulk is traded for a scoring forward => Calvin deHaan is signed as a free agent => Jeff Skinner is traded primarily for high-end futures possibly with a depth forward or defenseman included
By adding de Haan via free agency instead of trade, this version of dealing sees the Hurricanes replace Faulk, replace Skinner and still net a nice pile of futures to boot.
Jeff Skinner is traded for Krug => Justin Faulk is traded for Ryan Nugent Hopkins => A depth forward or defenseman is added via free agency
Two simple swaps could see the Hurricanes trade defense for offense and then the reverse to basically swap in new players for Skinner and Faulk and in the process revamp the team’s leadership
What say you Canes fans?
1) What is the probability the Jeff Skinner is traded? What is the probability that Justin Faulk is traded? What is the probability that both are dealth?
2) If you were general manager, which of the two would you trade?
3) What types of deals would you be looking to do for Skinner and/or Faulk?
Go Canes!
1) While I thought last week the probability was 90%+ for Skinner and 60%+ for Faulk, I now think it is only 50% one gets moved and 25% that both are dealt. I still think that is the intention, but I am starting to wonder if there are any partners offering returns of the quality you mention. It seems logical that other NHL teams would have the same concerns with Skinner and Rask that have been voiced here at C&C.
2) I would trade Faulk first.
A. Right shot defensemen who can score are valued by most other teams. I think Faulk–maybe with a prospect add–could return RNH.
B. I don’t think Skinner returns Krug. I understand that Skinner is a goal-scorer, but Krug had 10 more points last season. Krug is a highly productive d-man. My guess is Boston wants a big return, not a player heading for UFA.
3) I like getting RNH in return for Faulk because he is the type of player that would be needed at LW if the team is committed to icing Necas with Svechnikov this season. Having two rookies on a line is going to create challenges. A defensively sound player who can take key face-offs would be ideal as the third linemate. While others have mentioned it would be fun to see Skinner with Necas and Svech, I think that is more likely to be disastrous than productive. If Faulk (even with a significant add) brings RNH or a similar player, THEN I would love Skinner for Muzzin. Those would be the two best trades IMO.
As I think about it, I just don’t see de Haan as a likely, or good, signing. First, it is rumored he is asking for something like 5-6 years at around $5M per. That would be a lot of money tied up in the top 4 D. If Waddell & Co. are thinking ahead at all, it would also mean that one of the top 4 would need to be exposed in the 2020 expansion draft. By then Bean, Fox, and Martin are likely to need roster spots, so it might not be a big deal. Still losing that caliber player for nothing is never a good strategy. Given that the organization seems to be constrained by an internal budget well below the cap, I am thinking that Hamhuis on a 2-year deal might be the only UFA option for left D.
If I net everything out, I end up with the 50% chance of one more trade as mentioned above and a budget signing of a UFA for the D. Of course, I was 90+ sure that Lindholm wouldn’t be traded, so all this is likely way off.
I don’t get the thing of looking 2 years into the future for the expansion draft and not improving your team because of it. This team needs to make the playoffs.
I also think that an addition like de Haan fits perfectly with that mentality. He costs nothing to obtain, so if you do lose him, the net is really 0 but only after you hopefully use him to make the playoffs. And having a decent top half of the roster player available is a positive. At least that way you have a player that you might be able to offer up with modest trade incentive to protect someone younger.
But again, bigger picture by far and away the priority must be building a playoff team not building a team that is expansion draft safe but not really worth protecting because it isn’t good enough anyway.
I respectfully disagree Matt. This team does not need playoffs. On the contrary, in my humble opinion, given the events of the last two months, this team is in a better spot for patience then it ever has before.
I get that the fans want playoffs, and that’s cool, though I don’t account for that in my team-building, but while I can see the benefit of adding another d-man, I do not think we need to bring in another forward. We already have a ton of people competing for a couple slots, and we want to stymie that competition?
I hope not. We can’t just expect players to have all their growing pains at the AHL level. That’s just not realistic. NachoSvech, provided they earn their spots in camp, which they will, is best served by getting ice time at the NHL level, and I would argue it would be best for the team long-term as well.
Give the young guys something to fight for, something to earn. None of the veterans currently available, with the possible exception of de Haan (who apparently is craving him some Toronto) really strike me as people who would benefit the long term development of our team, which is infinitely more important than going all-in for the playoffs this year, IMO.
Matt. I too agree that playoffs need to be the main goal.
But two years will pass quickly. It would have been heresy to discuss trading Skinner and/or Faulk two years ago. But what if the Canes had, maybe they would have RNH or a similar player now. I don’t know. But a GM’s job is much like three-dimensional chess. If your argument is correct, then it was a mistake to include Fox in the trade because he doesn’t get the Canes to the playoffs in 18-19. Without Fox the trade is only a good trade if neither Hanifin nor Lindholm has any potential left. Even then the Canes should have traded for Hamilton and Frolik to give the team another C for this year and a possible playoff run.
I understand that de Haan is appealing on paper. In reality, he has missed 17, 10, and 49 games in 3 of the last 4 seasons. Do you really give him 5 years at $5M per year. Because you do have to look down the road and see that Aho, TT, Svech, Necas, will all be getting new contracts. Hopefully Zykov, Foegele, and one or two other prospects will turn into 4-5M players. The Canes will not likely threaten the cap, but they will far exceed the “internal cap” that seems to exist.
I would welcome de Haan. But I understand the reasons for not signing him–including the expansion draft.
I’m not sure if Kadri is a better player than Skinner, other than position (center) and toughness. I wouldn’t automatically be a fan of such a trade.
Krug for Skinner would be a good trade, but only if we can get more help at forward.
I mean, it’d be a pretty formitable group of defensemen if Faulk is legitimately pushed down to a third pairing RHD, but the team doesn’t have the goaltending or forwards to match.
For all its talk of a tougher team, the ownership has done very little to follow through, other than dumping a couple of contracts, letting the UFAs go and betting on the kids. Darling is back in net, there is no new captain in town, the core leadership is still in tact and management and coaching has largely been a reshuffling exercise.
I’m not saying the team can’t do better, we felt that the majority of the Canes players under performed last season and may have a lot more to give with better systems and a new approach to coaching, but the big words about big changes from TD ring increasingly hollow.
Bringing back all three captains from last year would go against Dundon and company’s philosophy of shaking up the core. Some will say they went against early word with Darling, but I think that was more motivational speak to get Darling in shape, besides the goalie market was quiet (they knew this). That said, I don’t think the market is quiet with Skinner or Faulk. Rather, the team is being smart to capitalize in the free agency aftermath. If I were GM, here is what I would do:
Faulk + pick to MIN for Niederreiter
Skinner to team providing best picks/prospects package
Sign Enstrom to free agent deal (2-3 years)
Tuevo/Aho/Zykov
Ferlund/Necas/Svechnikov
Niederreiter/Staal/Williams
Martinook/Rask/McGinn (Wallmark/PDG inserted as needed)
Slavin/Hamilton
Enstrom/Pesce
Fleury/TVR
Enstrom has been in decline for a few years and seems to be at the end of his career as an effective NHL defenseman. Not sure that would be a good idea.
My thought on Enstrom is that while others refuse, I think he would be a guy who would sign in Carolina. He knows Waddell and Dudley, and he is also a veteran on the back end who can put up points in the right situation. He may not get you 82 games but he’ll fill a void and allow Fleury more time to settle, amongst the other guys in the pipeline.
Definitely not the sexy choice, I agree, but could be a decent one.
Faulk can go to 30 teams, is a right shot defenseman, and can score and lead the power play. 50% chance that the leadership committee will accept what others will pay.
Skinner is another story altogether. If the committee will take a third rounder and a bag of pucks, maybe.
Livefreeordie, I wholeheartedly concur.
I think many of you are correct. The leadership has done nothing to change the the dynamic of the team.
They obtained a top 15 Dman in the league. Hamilton
They got a tough as nails beast to ride shotgun. Ferland
They moved two guys that viewed themselves better than most everyone else.
They let the whole fourth line from last year go.
They got a coach who is the exact opposite of Bill Peters.
They obtained one of the top offensive dman prospects in the league.
Many on this very website called for youth and now are screaming for ufa signings.
The team has Aho, TT, Svech, Necas, Slavin, Hamilton, Staal, Pesce, and more talent on the way. In the 10 years I have followed the team it is in better shape then I have ever seen it.
The majority called for change at the end of the season. New GM, new head coach, probably at least 33% new roster. All great stuff from my perspective.
I imagine GMDW has a message for many who are never satisfied.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PFkAAvDkj9k
You are not wrong.
jm I have been incredibly optimistic for the past two seasons. I agree with most your assessments–tons of talent in the organization, landing the second pick changes the complexion of everything that happens this year.
The coaching change is big–though I will be honest in saying that I preferred Vellucci for an internal hire. Still, RBA should be better with the young core than BP.
You are correct that the team is in better shape than in the past 10 years. That is mostly RF’s doing (and of course the luck of getting Svech).
But there are counterarguments about what the new management has done–because it has not done any more than RF last season:
Hamilton is a big add to the D–but not really any bigger than adding a UFA last season who brought tons of winning experience, veteran leadership, and was an offensive upgrade without costing anything in potential. So let’s say neither Hanifin nor Lindholm improve much (I think it is ex post facto reasoning to argue they were a problem because they thought too highly of themselves) and the trade favors the Canes, it is then equivalent to signing Williams as a UFA.
While Darling ended up being bad, when he was signed all the professionals and almost everyone here at C&C thought he was a prize. So a better UFA signing than Mrazek.
If you are looking for a tough as nails beast–I think Kruger from last season would be right there with Ferland from this season. Another draw.
I remember the NHL network saying that GMRF had the best 2017 offseason in the league. Not sure that will be the consensus this year.
Don’t get me wrong, I am really excited about 18-19 and think the Canes are much like Winnipeg two or three years ago. I honestly believe that by 2021 they will be serious Cup contenders. But I think objectivity is required. Thus far the new management’s biggest success was allowing Peters to walk. And while I hope BPA will be hugely successful, none of us can argue it is the same as bringing in Trotz or another winning veteran coach.
To paraphrase Justin Williams, the Hurricanes are going to be relevant again. Maybe this season. I for one am not sure that will be the doing of current management.
We disagree on some things. No issues as that is part of being sports fans. My intent in the post is to encourage folks to hang in there. The team has not had one practice together, played one preseason game or even got through July and there seemed to be a negative vibe going. I see the process working. Will JW lift the cup next June? Probably not. Yet I can see Aho lifting the cup a few years down the road.
One question for you? You seriously see Krueger and Ferland as a wash?
jm. I am 100% for hanging in there. I do believe Aho will raise a Cup, probably more than one. My main point was that this offseason and the new management haven’t done much in furthering that goal. Winning the lottery was the bid deal. There is one caveat–if Fox becomes a 50-point defenseman down the road. I will give Waddell full credit for acquiring Fox if he can get him to sign.
From what I read at the time, Kruger was being called a near-elite defensive center. If you consider levels as below-average, average, above-average, excellent, and elite, then Ferland would not have any aspect near elite and only physicality above average. Now the past year has tainted our view of Kruger (much like Darling but to a lesser extend), however the truth is that Kruger was considered a key signing last year. He was going to take pressure off Staal and make opposing teams’ scorers have a much harder time when they faced the Canes. You can look at some of Matt’s posts from last year and the comments from many of us here at C&C. In fact, for the first 8-10 games, many of us were excited that Carolina had “the best fourth line in hockey.”
So I do think Kruger and Ferland are a wash.
Ctcaniac speaks truths of Canes summer swells past. Our evaulations of certain players do have a bit of a pendulum to them.
Ok. I understand you are comparing 2017 Krueger to 2018 Ferland. I thought you were saying the guy who got demoted, and then shipped out with retained salary was equal to Ferland. Would you agree 2018 Ferland is more helpful to a team than 2018 Krueger? If so, Carolina is in a better spot with Ferland.
I mean, I hope so. Depends on how he plays here I guess.
No i’m sorry but you have to apply LINE context to the terms you are using. People last year called Kruger an elite defensive center but that was in the context that EVERYONE knew he was at best a 4th line center. The thought was that he could be one of the BEST 4th line centers. Nobody would say Ferland is an elite top 6 player at ALL – in fact he is a below average top 6 player/just passable top 6 guy, but if you’ve seen his advanced statistics they essentially rate out as “good – excellent bottom 6 player” and primarily with 3rd line scoring rates. Therefore if we compared the idea of Ferland as a 4th liner to Kruger as a 4th liner you’re talking about a guy who is too good to even play on the 4th line (Ferland) versus a guy whose top end ceiling is being a good 4th liner (Kruger). So please – no canes fans think of Ferland and Kruger as a ‘wash’ I think except you 😛
All great stuff from my perspective, too.
I actually think we have to trade Skinner first for a few reasons:
1/ He’s been being actively shopped and has already nixed at least one trade. He’s a professional so could always return but the weirdness factor would be very high and he doesn’t want to be here anymore.
2/ I don’t buy the “Pesce playing his off-side” talk. We need another LHD to start the season more than we need anything else right now; it’s the biggest open hole on the roster and must be filled. Maybe we swap Faulk or other pieces for a LHD but I think it’s more likely we trade offense for defense (and vise versa for our trade partner). I am skeptical de Haan signs here (either we’re on his short list or we pay the most) and all of the other UFA’s are real crap-shoots.
3/ If I’m GMTW, I’m looking at the Tavares situation and saying to myself, “I cannot let Skinner walk and get nothing in return.” Trading him could happen anytime between now and the Trade Deadline, but if we’re not extending him – and I haven’t heard anyone on either side mention an extension – then he MUST be traded eventually. Full stop. The actual return back to CAR is a secondary consideration to getting the best deal possible, whatever it is. Ideally, it’s a LHD before training camp.
4/ We have more NHL-ready depth on offense than we do on defense, so given the choice between having surplus defense (no Faulk trade + an acquired LHD for Skinner) or surplus offense (Faulk for offense and no LHD), I think I’d rather have the surplus defense to drive more accountability next year and then adjust from there. We can backfill offense from CLT much easier than we can backfill defense.
I don’t think MIN is a trade-partner for Faulk – they already have enough RHD, but there are teams out there that need a RHD: TOR, EDM, CHI, TBY. Kadri and Faulk as the starting point is an decent option and we would be tougher to play against. Again, I think we need to solve the LHD situation first. If we trade Faulk first, then we may be stuck in a situation where we have to overpay for a LHD.
“He’s been being actively shopped and has already nixed at least one trade.”
I have seen that mentioned in comment sections more than once but I haven’t seen that from media… Where was that deal?
I don’t know the deal he squashed … it was a rumor and I didn’t see it confirmed by the team. I think it’s the big unanswered question: which teams will he agree to go to?
In thinking more about it, it may require a 3-team deal to move him and/or Faulk.
Good way to look at it. I sure as hell hope your perspective is the right one!
I could reinsert the gloomy perspective on all these points, but I much prefer to be convinced by your view of the state of the team.
I’m on board with Trading Faulk for the right return and backfilling the left side with some experience, but I don’t know why the team should trade away a 30+ goal scorer for a few picks or prospects, those might never pan out at all (the Staal trade has yet to yield an NHL player in return, and it’s been a few years now).
If the return is not an LHD, a top goalie prospect or a center, I think the team does better to keep skinner, help him succeed and give him a shot until the playoffs.
At that poin he can either be resigned or traded to a playoff team, worst case scenario. I don’t think the returns would be that much worse than trading him with a year remaining on his contract and, despite all his shortcomings, he provides scoring, the team needs scoring, his defensive deficiencies can be reduced with the right line mates and defense pairing and with a change of style for him.
I do not think the Canes are done with trades in spite of what Waddell is rumbling. Brind’Amours comments in the N&O are interesting in regards to Skinner. Pretty blunt. If he comes back he will be expected to be more consistent on D or see the bench. This may be a message from the Canes to Skinner and his camp to loosen up on the trade requirements. The last think Skinner’s agent wants is a season in the dog house which would mess with his FA value.
I have no idea what players are really available. Krug would be a nice pickup, but agree that it would take more than Skinner unless Skinner would sign a deal. Would think Faulk would be a desired player, but you never know.
1&2.
Both. I feel it coming soon.
3. What types of deals?
I think my favorite is the RNH for Faulk. Then Skinner for Muzzin. If that happens I would feel pretty good about our season coming up.
I don’t like the Krug trade. He is a good player, creates offence for sure. He is so undersized. We don’t really have anyone that hits on the blue line already. Krug would add to that.
I know that the oil and RNH have been in the rumor mill for a while. I don’t see them moving him. There were stretches last season where he carried the oilers. I thought maybe Hanifin could be enough to get him.. but Not sure Faulker has the value.
Side note. I had a beer last night with a buddy from Toronto. he is a big Leafs fan and they need D. His thoughts on JF… Said he was a liability and they have similar players already. No way did he want JF. He said he would take him for Cheap… Like Kapi straight up. I find it interesting to hear outside perspectives… He would love Skinner though.
Id take Kadri straight up for either Skinner or Faulk.
1. Possibility of Skinner being traded? I don’t think he will be traded and hope he is not for the meager return you have suggested. For example, Skinner to Boston would require a return of Krug AND Heinen (Center) for me. You suggest just for Krug which to me a lousy deal for us. Right now 0%.
Possibility of Faulk being traded. Higher than Skinner’s chances. Your suggestion of Ryan Nugent Hopkins is in the ball park. I like signing DeHaan even if we overpay a little to match in with Hamilton. Seems to me that would really give us a five star defensive crew. Right now 50%.
Trading of both…0%.
Other ideas…read dmilleravid above because there are good ideas there in concentrated form…then read all the others because there are more good ideas here and there. I think d-rob’s buddy from Toronto probably has a good perspective on the value of Faulk in the market place. I say keep him and hope he has bounce back year. If he doesn’t, he won’t be any less valuable at the next trade deadline than he is now IMO.
We could argue over Skinner’s value as a player, but the big boat anchor in dealing him is that he is a one year rental. Getting just Krug for Skinner would be a huge win.
If Skinner would have a big year for Boston it would be tough for them to sign him. If he doesn’t have a good year they won’t want him. That significantly reduces his trade value to a team near the cap.
My comments include “to me” and “IMO”. They are just that, my opinions supported by what limited knowledge (none) I have of what’s going on in the minds of the 31 GM’s in the league. My point is, IMO for us to make the playoffs THIS YEAR Jeff Skinner provides us with a better opportunity than adding Krug and losing Skinner would. Again, that’s just my opinion.
From a chemistry/leadership perspective I do question Skinner’s place. From a hockey perspective I think he could potentially help the young guys flourish while providing additional punch in the lineup. Like Rod said, if Skins brings the attitude, he 100% could be a very valuable part of our lineup, and a great asset to developing our youth.
A Skinner/Necas/Svech line is still my pipe dream to see for next year.
This might sound odd, but I would be wary of introducing Necas/Svechnikov to the NHL with Skinner on their line. Would they touch the puck? Or be relegated to garbage goal clean up roles? I want Necas and Svechnikov playing with the puck on their sticks a ton as they make the transition to a higher level.
That’s exactly it though, Skinner has always felt like a bit of a puck hog, but he really didn’t have a ton of people to skate with and pass it to and he still averaged mid-20s assists for the last three years. He and Lee Stempniak always seemed to have chemistry and so too with Rask for a short while. Svech and Necas CAN skate with him though, so that can allow for some serious puck movement, if Skins is so inclined.
Secondly, Skinner is usually swarmed by the opponents defense. Having Svech and Necas on the same line, both opens the game up for them and him, witch Svech providing a physical net front game, with Necas and Skinner causing havoc in and around the slot. In theory, you couldn’t double team anyone on that line without opening up a significant threat elsewhere.
Obviously it would have to be tested, and if the chemistry were not there, well, the good thing about Skinner is that he can find a spot on any line. Folks have always said that Skinner could have a higher level with better linemates, and if he wants to (as in he buys into Rod’s system) there is no reason to think that this couldn’t develop into a highly dangerous second scoring line for the team. In my humble opinion.
To further amplify my view…suppose we sign Calvin DeHaan as a free agent. That would change what the Canes needs are. No longer would I need to dangle Skinner out there to get a QUALITY left handed defenseman. My needs changed. Now all I have to decide as far as Skinner goes is there some other need that trading Skinner would solve leaving the Canes better off with the new guy. If not, keep him for now.
I find myself in partial agreement with jm, and near total with ct, above.
We are not done trading for culture – or we should not be done.
Only minimally has the intent of trading been to upgrade talent, although that was TD at the end of the season challenging each Canes player that they were looking for someone better.
Both concepts have been walked back a bit and the reality is that we didn’t let Ryan or Nordy walk because we found someone better.
And it has been reported that the Canes have been (or had been) overvaluing our assets and asking too much for them.
I still think both Skinner and Faulk leave – but I don’t see how we get matching talent for either.
For Skinner, there are 3 trade scenarios I see:
1. He is viewed as a quality 1-year rental and goes for picks/prospects. We, of course, can flip those picks/prospects for another roster player as an optional followup.
2. He goes on a sign-and-trade (this is what tripped up Pacioretty going to LAK, when they couldn’t come to terms) – this is the best way to get the best talent/term back.
3. He gets traded for moderate talent/term – but we need to throw in a sweetener (forward prospect) because of Skinner’s contract risk.
Factor in Skinner’s apparently limited list of acceptable teams and there is work to be done here. I still think it happens.
Faulk is a different beast – I do see us pursuing an offensive talent, but the Faulk-for-RNH ship sailed two years ago. It may take more than Faulk to get top-6 forward. But I don’t see us keeping Faulk now that we have Hamilton.
Other notes:
I do think we are going to rely on youth to fill in our forward spots – Necas, Svech,, Zykov (with the one-way contract, I don’t see him playing much in Charlotte unless he doesn’t work out here) and probably one or two others.
We also appear to be trying to move Rask – I do think there is a lesser probability but it is possible. Since he has been top-9 for us, his departure would leave a spot to be filled.
Agree we may need to sweeten the pot for someone to take Faulk. I just have a funny feeling Faulk heads to MIN. They have a new GM in tow and have not done much yet (new GM’s want to change a part or two even if it works). Plus it’s a place Faulk would allow with his partial NTC clause. So to your point, we may have to sweeten things…and to dmiller’s point MIN could use their RHD overage (say Dumba or Spurgeon) in a separate deal to replace whoever they send us. They certainly have some left wing talent we could benefit from (allowing us to maybe deal Skinner elsewhere for best pick/prospect package). Then again just an arm chair GM’s hope.
Buf reportedly just took Risty off the market because they received no satisfactory offers for him, probably a hint that there is not exactly a line of JF suiters stretching around the zip code.
And I don’t see why the cAnes should trade Skinner for some picks and prospects instead of trying to revive his career in carolina.
The team has a log jam of prospects at forward, getting even more is not likely to help unless the prospect is of the superstar quality, which is unlikely.
Maybe some help on D and especially in goal might be worth it.
I’ve always advocated considering trading Skinner for a current NHL player that fills a need.
I don’t see how ridding the team of their top scorer for promises of future is going to make the canes a more desireable organization for players.
As has been said, Carolina is considered a joke of a hockey team around the league (I didn’t say it but a number of my fellow C&C posters have said as much, and I am sure they have it from good sources) and no UFA with half an ounce of self respect would sign a deal in Carolina for any money. The only way to change that perception is to play well enough to be taken seriously. I don’t see how continually trading players that help a need for more prospect for the future helps in that regard.
The canes are approaching a win now or never moment, shouldn’t all the players that can help be called on to help?
Maybe Faulk to Edm for RNH and the CAnes taking on LUcic’s salary is a scenario that could be explored. Edm must be desperate to shed salary by now and Lucic is a prime target for a salary dump with a sweetener.
I have been scratching my noggin wondering why we haven’t been able to make a deal for either Skinner or Faulk.
I know that some of it is due to the fact that there is little respect out there for us. If we are getting offers, they are not very good.
With Skinny, we will know if both sides are serious when the other team asks for permission to talk to Skinny about renewing his contract. That sort of thing usually gets announced/leaked.
I tend to think that the Canes braintrust is less than enthusiastic about moving him, and he is warming to the notion of seeing what a new season of playing here will be like. Contrary to what some might say, a lot of changes have been made.
Did you know that he led the NHL in takeaways last season? That sounds pretty defensively responsible to me.
Faulk’s case is very interesting. I believe that the braintrust will not move him until we get TVR to sign a contract renewal. Management has been talking an optimistic game, but there is no ink on the paper yet.
Or did I miss it?
In the meantime, I think we should give up trying to sign Calvin DeHaan. He is asking too much for too long. Besides, I think he will go back to the Isles anyway.
I like the idea of signing UFA Alexi Emelin to a one or two year deal @2 million per. I can’t find anything that says he has been signed or retired (he’s only 32).
powerless, a lot of good ideas IMO. Like your approach to the Skinner situation and the Faulk situation. Not sure about Emelin’s defensive abilities, but I do know that he is a hard-nosed hitter and a replica of Dalback in temper. But you sure have raised what could be a possible solution that makes sense for the Canes.
Emelin…181 Hits..109 Blocked Shots…plus 9 for Nashville. Just for information purposes. Looks good if you want stay at home talented bruiser.
IMO we should remember what our goal is and what we need to do to reach that goal. IMO our immediate goal this season is to make the playoffs. What do we need to do to do that. We need to get better than Columbus, New Jersey (the two wild card teams) and Florida (finished immediately ahead of us). I use that in forming my perspective on what moves I THINK we need to make.
This type of thinking needs to dominate the thought processes at this site a little more I think. Something I have commented about since last season was that I find people are quite intro-analytical – comparing the Hurricanes to the Hurricanes ALL the time. It’s so easy to compare apples to apples – we can see how much better our top 6 has gotten. Something that other teams do that the Canes don’t is GROW at an EXPONENTIALLY FASTER rate because they have owners or GMS who are not afraid to make big splashes. Look at St Louis for example – they are a perennial playoff team – miss the playoffs one season? Pseudo panic ensues the team makes a massive trade and 2 big free agent signings to change the dynamic. Good teams don’t waste time in making themselves better. The Canes waste ALOT of time and thus so many teams have passed them. So the question does become how do we catch all those improving teams while also catching the established top teams?
When I net it out – I only see the Canes as FOR SURE better than 1 metropoliton division team and that is NYI. I think POSSIBLY they are better than NYR as well but wow NYR has just owned the canes the past couple years so I would not be surprised if that continued. No matter how nice the summer has been the Canes are just not a better team than : Pitts, CLB, Florida, Philly, Washington. Maybe they are better than NJ (I firmly believe NJ overacheived last season). Either way I don’t see the Canes in a better position than last year standings wise – at this point they are still firmly a “wild card contender” and nothing more
I like the way you think, red. Emelin looks like just what we need. We have grit up front, but nothing on defense.
This not having any respect is not only a problem for us. In a recent interview, Montreal GM Marc Bergevin said that when he asked John Tavares and Paul Stasny if they would like to come to play in Montreal, they each said flatly, “No.”
I wonder how many times that has happened to DW this year?
Probably at least a dozen.
We just signed Dan Renouf?
He will just be AHL depth for us; only played 1 NHL game, ironically against the Canes.
Maybe he will fill in for Trevor Carrick when we move him up to fill the space we have for a left-handed d-man.
We all remember Hudson Elynuik? He refused to sign an entry level contract with us and chose instead to re-enter the draft. He went undrafted. He just signed a contract with the Toronto Marlies.
I would love to know why he didn’t want to play for us.
Honestly, it’s not like he was a top round draft pick like Jack Johnson that refused to sign setting us back a bit. For all we know this could have been his way of saying ‘stick it’ when he had little leverage to begin with. This player means nothing to us and we can let history be just that.
Now to that point, are we a market that is totally desirable, no. But are we building the right pieces to be someday, YES. That’s what counts in my book.
WE have the makings of a good team. All the more important to stop thinking perpetual rebuild and stockpiling picks and prospects, and start thinking we’re ready to challenge playoffs this year and go deep next year.
The team needs another high end forward and LHd to get there and should not trade away players that can be part o the solution unless the return is a player that is equally or more likely to help the team achieving that goal.
That’s why trading Skinner for a collection of prospects and pucks doesn’t make sense in my mind (not that my mind is always the most sensible of places).
If he doesn’t have the chemistry with the top line he can provide a scoring threat on a third or 4th line. I think the team can offer him better line mates than at any point in the last 2 or so seasons.
Skinner/Rask/PdG is a blast from the past but those guys were developing some chemistry and Rask is defensively responsible.
I’d say yes to trading Skinner if we got an RnH of Edm or Niederreiter from Min or Sparks + a young center of LW from Tor, or MP from Montreal, but not trade him for a collection of picks and players that may or may not be ready in a couple of years, or never at all.
breezy, Skinner is a fantastic offensive player. In a perfect world, I would prefer to let RBA try to elevate his game and, hopefully, get him to elevate the play of his entire line; he is a difference-maker in that world.
However, the team is not in a position to allow him to walk after next season without any compensation. And that is the path we are on with this player. Maybe we stick it out with him until the Trade Deadline but, when you think through what our options could look like then, the odds of us in a Tavares-like situation increase.
When you identify a problem in life, you are almost always better off dealing with it immediately. It always seems like there will be a better time in the future when it will be more pleasant or easier but there never is.
If Skinner wants to leave when his contract is up or if we do not want to extend him or both, we have to deal with it now. It only gets worse for us the longer we wait.
Maybe we didn’t offer him a deal. I prefer that to him turning down a deal.
Those cheap skates in Raleigh just signed DeHaan.
I’m kidding, however this signing may say more about the way forward for the new leadership than any move so far. 27 year old LD who can be a solid part of a very good D.
Anyone ready to join the optimism train?
Good call Matt. Looks like Canes are reading C&C.
I love being wrong …
I must say I’m surprised. Happily surprised.
If the Canes could turn Justin Faulk into a solid centerman things will look pretty good.
On the train we go!!
Well, the Canes could have one of the NHL’s top D come next season.
Slaven and Pesce
De Haan and Hammilton
Fleury and Faulk
TVR would be a solid #7 D.
Of course JF or “TVR could be traded for an upgrade lesewhere in the lineup, especially at goalie or forward.
I can see JF being traded for a decent return, e.g. to Tor for Kadri and Sparks or similar, or TVR + JF to Tor for Nilander (and Sparks unlikely but one can hope).
Either way, Skinner should have a reason to stay and be excited about the new direction and the upgraded personnel on D plus promising forward prospects.
If not, he can be traded for forward help or even prospects (better be good prospects) as the team is set on D.
For me this is the one move that puts the Canes over the top, so so into exciting, so thumbs up to management for making this signing and signaling an intent to not only play but play to win next season!!!
Cheers