Yesterday’s Daily Cup of Joe emerged from evaluating the weekend’s blockbuster trade and speculated about “What’s next?”
The focal point of the article was the likely ongoing trade discussion, but the article also revisited the what I deemed the three biggest needs back in early June. Front and center as it has been for awhile now was goaltending. Current indications are that the Hurricanes will give Scott Darling a second chance and that the team will part ways with Cam Ward. That opens up one very important slot in the lineup to add a goalie capable of being the #1 if Darling does not rebound.
Especially if the Hurricanes are still engaged in high stakes wheeling and dealing with Jeff Skinner and Justin Faulk, there could also be numerous trade options at goalie. But the free agent list also offers a couple options that could rival the trade options without spending trade assets to make the addition.
Today’s Daily Cup of Joe starts by evaluating the free agent goalie options available and then takes a quick look at a handful of trade targets that could be available.
Free agents
Carter Hutton
Hutton’s name seems to be at the top of the list of free agents available and for decent reason. His 2017-18 numbers are arguably the most impressive of any goalie available. The 2.09 goals against average and .931 save percentage that he posted on the way to a 17-7-3 record are impressive. And he posted lower but still pretty good results in the year prior. As far as backup goalies who look possibly ready to take the next step, Hutton would be top of the class. But that’s just the thing. He would be the Hurricanes third bet on a backup who can make the transition from backup to #1 and also to a new team and city at the same time. Based on how well that worked with Eddie Lack and Scott Darling, I am utterly horrified about the prospect of trying that formula again.
Jonathan Bernier
Bernier has become a bit of a journeyman, but he is still only 29 years old and like Hutton is coming off of a strong 2017-18 season in a backup role but with a stretch filling in for the starter. In 2017-18, Bernier posted a solid 19-13-3 record with a .913 save percentage and 2.85 goals against average. He also dazzled at times suggesting he was on an upswing. He had similarly heavy workloads in a complementary role in the prior two seasons and does have experience as a starter back in Toronto for two years. His numbers are not quite as impressive as Hutton’s and the inconsistency rap on him could be a concern, but Bernier’s resume includes two interesting things. First, he has actually been a starter. Second, as a journeyman, he has experience three times changing teams and settling into a new environment without missing a beat. Both of those resume points are things that Lack and Darling did not possess.
Robin Lehner
Unlike the two goalies above, Lehner is coming off of a weaker season. The Sabres were such a train wreck in 2017-18 that it is hard to tell how much of that to pin on Lehner and how much to just chalk up to the team in front of him. His .908 save percentage and 3.01 goals against average in 2017-18 are a concern as is his issues with dealing with frustration at times. But a positive is the fact that he has actually been a starting goalie in each of the last two years. As such, he would rate highest of the unrestricted free agents as very simply being a starting goalie versus trying to become a starting goalie.
Petr Mrazek
As a goalie who once stole the starting job from Jimmy Howard, he has some amount of run time as a starter. But more recently, Mrazek has been inconsistent to the point where it cost him that starting job and eventually earned a ticket out of Detroit. Mrazek has NHL-level ability, but he would be a risky reclamation type bet coming out of the 2017-18 season.
Other free agent options
I do not see any of the other options that include Chad Johnson, Andrew Hammond, Ondrej Pavelec, Anton Khudobin as being in the same tier as the three above. Similarly, I actually like Cam Ward as a backup but not in a situation where the Hurricanes need another goalie capable of being a #1 if Darling does not rebound.
The trade market
Philipp Grubauer who represented a good trade option was dealt to Colorado taking him off the table, but there could be a few other goalies available via trade.
Craig Anderson
With the tumultuous times in Ottawa Craig Anderson is allegedly available. Maybe a bit like Lehner, he had a tough regular season in front of a poor hockey team in 2017-18. His .898 save percentage and 3.32 goals against average do not inspire confidence. But just a year earlier, he posted a .926 save percentage and 2.28 goals against average in helping the Senators make the playoffs. At 37 years old, Anderson is not a long-term solution but perhaps his volume of NHL experience could be what makes him unflappable in a new situation and therefore the best for the job.
James Reimer
With Luongo entering the 2018-19 healthy (so far), might Florida look to unload Reimer and his salary. He is maybe a bit like Bernier as a goalie who once held a starting job but has bounced back to a backup role since then.
Other trade options
In addition to Anderson who seems likely to be available, there are other goalies who maybe could be pried loose in a big deal. San Jose has an extra in Aaron Dell who would be in a similar category as Hutton as a strong backup. The Oilers floundered and need blue line help. Could that make Cam Talbot available for the right trade price? If Jeff Skinner and/or Justin Faulk are available as trade assets, other options could also emerge.
My 2 cents
I am on record as declaring the Holy Grail to be a trade that sees the Hurricanes retain some salary, possibly take on Marian Hossa’s contract and then returns Scott Darling to Chicago which opens up both goalie slots. I think it could work but acknowledge that it is a low probability.
As such, I see the Hurricanes looking to maximize the one open roster slot that they have at the position. My starting point is to say that I am so enamored with any of the options that I am dying to lock one of them in for three or four years. After consecutive misses at the position, I would be happy to do a one-year, prove it deal and possibly having to pay more on a second deal if it goes well. The Hurricanes have paid enough for lack of success at the goalie position in recent years, so I would be happy to overpay for actual success this time around.
Based on that, I would not winning any crazy bidding wars with big $ or too long of term. I waver a bit on my choice, but possibly because I am just so gun shy at this point, I dislike the idea of adding a player like Hutton represents a third straight try at converting a backup to a starter. So on a short-term deal Lehner is an interesting option. Especially if Ottawa would eat some salary, Craig Anderson could be interesting. I would be looking for a strong ‘yes’ vote from the scouting department to say that they are convinced that he still has a year or two left.
What say you Canes fans?
1) If you put the financials and other logistics to the side for a minute, which of these goalies (or someone else) do you like best?
2) What is the deal you would try to do?
3) Would you consider biting the bullet and buying Darling out to open both slots?
Go Canes!
“We trust you, Scotty. We believe in you, but we hope you don’t mind if we bring in this other guy to compete with you for the starting job. You know. Just in case you mess up again.”
Do we really think he is stupid? Or maybe we just think that he has no feelings. Wow!
Martin Gerber. Kevin Weekes. Arturs irbe. Anton Khudobin. Eddie Lack. And now, Scott Darling.
Raleigh, NC. The burial grounds for goalie careers.
I have an idea! Instead of buying out his contract or trading him back to Chicago or recognizing what we did to him last season and to Lack the previous season by making him play through a player mutiny with a coach who abused him and giving him a real second chance. Instead of all of that, let’s just take him out behind the PNC and shoot him in the head. Cheap. Clean. Simple. Low risk.
What’s that, you say? Illegal? Life in prison? The fans as well as the players might have feelings about that? Hmmm! You might have a point.
Now what are you saying? The honorable thing would be to give Scotty a REAL second chance? Take a risk? A REAL risk? Give him a REAL backup, not a guy who will be trying to take his job? A backup goalkeeper who will provide the support that a backup is supposed to provide? Hmmm!
Well, I guess we could do that. You say that the league and its players are watching us? This is our chance to make Raleigh a city players with NMCs and no trade clauses put on their lists of places they want to go?
You have a point. Yeah! Yeah
I know. Hockey players are human beings. I guess you’ll keep harping on that point until it sinks in.
Powerless. I too think committing to Darling is a human and honorable thing to do.
However, I strongly disagree with the unwritten assumption that he didn’t have a
“REAL backup” and instead had a guy “trying to take his job.” From all comments beginning in training camp through the exit interviews Cam Ward did everything he could to help Darling and the team succeed. He did say he wanted to play well–but isn’t it called healthy competition?
Professional athletes get thrown under the bus all the time–look at what Calgary is saying about Hamilton. Even Sidney Crosby was rumored to be a poor teammate (there was an entire Sports Illustrated article to that effect in 2014 I believe) until the Penguins started winning. While many fans have been highly critical of Ward’s performance, I have never heard anything but graciousness from other players and coaches. Cam could be a problem–but if he is, it is a well-kept secret.
That’s one side of the human story. How about the other? Ummm…hey Scott…we know you came in unprepared last year and really let us down. We know you have all that money from that big contract we gave you, but we really love you anyway and are willing to risk our entire season that you won’t do it again.
Scott Darling isn’t the only human on the Hurricanes. There are 20 some other players that need to rely on each other, and Darling blew it last year. I don’t say you trash the guy and throw him out the door, but he sure doesn’t get a free pass either. Its not fair to the other humans on the team.
You have a point, lessthanstable. But, then again, with very few exceptions, the entire team let each other, the team and us fans down. So let’s portion out the blame where it belongs. When we do that, I think we will find that Scotty’s share of the blame is much smaller than some of us first imagined.
Do we know that he came into last season’s camp out of shape? Or is it just a rumor?
Waddell said Darling came into camp overweight last year. From what I’ve heard he is still overweight and attempting to shed the pounds this summer.
The team was 23-14-4 when Cam was in net. That’s a 100 point pace.
The team was 12-21-7 when Scott was in net. That’s a 62 point pace.
Same team in front of both goalies.
So did Captain Faulk, which I would think would be a hugely bigger problem then a first-time goalie starter, who struggled to cope with all he had to do last summer. He screwed up, and now he’s getting right. Lessthanstable, you and i agree on many, many things. The ability of four million dollars to explain exactly what you have to do to become a starting goalie, while moving to a new city and trying to establish yourself against a legend, with shaky defense is not one of them.
I fully agree with giving him another goalie to compete with. Competition breeds greatness generally. But to hold that ‘not in shape’ bit so hard against him, when it clearly was a fuck up that can easily be pointed due to circumstances, and an obstacle he can easily over come this year. He made mistakes last year. Why are his initial mistakes more important than the next three years?
Because coming in overweight and thus not in shape was totally in Darling’s control. It was his responsibility. It wasn’t hard to do. We can assume that his teammates came in to camp ready to go. Darling did not. I see no circumstances to excuse that. He has another chance this year. The difference is he should/will have competition and the job is no longer his to lose.
Fogger, I think we agree. I am just making the point that Darling brought this upon himself. He had the job and lost it. Now he has to earn it back. I wish him the best. The team needs him, but the Canes can’t be foolish enough to not take precautions that he won’t be the same player he was last season.
Come on man. It seems like you’re blaming Cam Ward’s presence for Scott Darling’s performance. The facts are:
1. Canes traded for him with express purpose of making him #1 goalie. Publicly, Ward accepted backup role and everyone viewed Darling as the starter.
2. As is widely reported, Darling came to Canes horribly out of shape. That’s on Darling.
3. Even as Darling played horribly by every measure, Darling kept the starting job for first third of the season.
4. It was apparent that Ward was outplaying Darling. Team had no choice but to give more starts to Ward. Darling never showed he could play even average.
Darling was statistically – and visually – the worst goalie in the NHL. No professional player in any sport can be statistically the worst in the league and expect not to be replaced. If the reason is that he was worried that he’d lose his job to backup, then he probably doesn’t have the mentality to play professional sports.
What then, do we do with the rest of the team who performed miserably? Aside from Skinner, who has his own club of people who love to hate him, I don’t hear much criticism being leveled at the rest of the team for their poor performance. Scotty wasn’t alone out there. Although it must have seemed to be that way to him.
There’s plenty of blame to go around and it’s been loud: Skinner, Faulk, coaches, etc. We have a new coach, new GM, just traded away two core players in Lindholm and Hanifin and are likely to move at least one more. Darling hasn’t been scapegoated. But fact is he was terrible. I hope he rebounds and has amazing turnaround this year. But putting faith in him to be #1 goalie this season would be unwise.
We need a goalie who can pull 50 games and has proven to do so. That’s why I can see Lehner via free agency. He signed a short-term deal with Buffalo at a higher value (we might be able to do the same). Otherwise someone like Jake Allen via trade who is proven to haul the load and still on the young side with good tread on the tires. Anderson might not have the same tread given his age, but would not be surprised if for only 1 yr. Reimer is likely a no-go because I believe he signed his deal with Luongo already in the fold, so doubt he goes anywhere.
The 1B options out there are proven backups who have played 20-30 games, and as good as some of their numbers are I would agree that is a road I’d rather not travel down specifically for this year. If that means sinking 10mil in goaltending for 1 year so be it. If Darling were realistic with himself he would expect competition for the starters crease this year (I don’t get caught up into the hurting his feelings bit because hockey is a business and he knows this).
I am sure that Cam was a good backup. He is a class act. I have met him a couple of times.
My reference was to whomever we trade to acquire or sign a UFA (other than Cam) and bring in. Most of the guys mentioned will harbor a desire to be number 1.
Scotty is no fool. He will know the difference between when Cam asks, “How are you feeling today, Scotty?” And when one of these other guys asks the same question.
In about 90% of situations, the #2 goalie hopes to be #1. These guys are competitive athletes. There is a right way and a wrong way to do this as part of a team, but no way do you want a goalie who just wants to be a #2 for forever.
There is no good answer. You can be terrified that a backup won’t be able to make the transition to starter, but bringing in a former starter that lost their job, or is available because his former team doesn’t want him any more really isn’t any better. It’s a crapshoot. I like Lehner because I think he’s been in a rough situation, but that’s just a guess.
Bottom line is the Canes need someone else in camp. If the Canes have two question marks at goalie they have a better chance that one of them will come through.
I am sorry, live free or die. But I had to snicker at the closing of your post, when you say that hockey is a business, and that the player knows that.
It reminded me of the scene in “North Dallas Forty” where one of the offensive linemen (Lyle Alzedo) picks one of the coaches off the floor. As the coach is dangling, Alzedo screams in his face, “You chicken-sh– c—s—–! When I call football a game, you call it a business, when I call it a business you call it a game! ” Alzedo then shoved the coach into a locker.
Hockey is a game, yes, but a game which operates on a business scale and model at the NHL level. The organization pays players to perform, markets their business, sells tickets for profit (or sometimes not). If said player does not perform up to standard, it’s up to the business to decide how long or short a leash to give that player. Even the Players Association (or unions in the real world) understands this model. They may not agree, but owners hold the cards because they are the ones ultimately writing the pay checks. They can buy out players for poor performance or even change markets for prosperity given the right support. It’s really no different in hockey and players understand this. Professional hockey players, like real world employees are replaceable. So in a nutshell, hockey will always be a business and oftentimes business decisions may not agree with employee perception.
We’re fans though. We’re the customer. We’re just here to see hockey. At no point did we sign a contract entitling us to winning hockey. And let’s talk business.
In my very subjective opinion, the best businesses are the ones that treat their employees like people. I’ve been in organizations where employees were treated like assets, and i’ve been in organizations where employees are treated like meat (Thanks Army).
Point is, creating an environment conducive to building people and building a positive culture has just as much effect on winning business, in my experience, as does performance in general. The happier you are, the better you perform. Sometimes angry people perform, but in my experience that performance is far more erratic. A heartless, cutthroat business model can work, but it seems a lot easier, and a lot more pleasant for everyone if we focus on building an environment for the employees (players) as well as fans. One big, happy family.
But then, I fail in buisness, so that’s probably why.
I do not see where Darling is being punished. He just lost his stranglehold on the #1 goalie job. This is a two way street. Darling has a responsibility as do the Canes. This isn’t like your kids where the love is unconditional. At some point you have to do your job. That isn’t treating someone like meat. That’s asking them to hold up their end of the bargain.
Agreed. Like i said, the truly unforgivable part would be him repeating the mistake rather than him making it in the first place. If he recovers, all should be forgiven. If he doesn’t, call Chicago.
I agree fans are the customers and should be treated accordingly. When we use the phrase ‘that’s business’ it usually takes on a negative portrayal. But not all businesses are cut throat or operate in the wrong. Good organizations care about their employees and customers, but if an employee is under performing, that can affect team morale, and can trickle down to affect the customer. In this case the business side of hockey is no different. Hence the culture change we have started to see in Raleigh, and likely more change to come.
Agree with lessthanstable: there is no good answer; it’s a crapshoot. Even Grubauer is a crapshoot. There is no telling what’s going to happen with COL next year.
There is another possibility that everyone is discounting because it’s so outlandish: Ned! Maybe he’s the backup and maybe he pulls a Matt Murray. I wouldn’t bet the season on it, but … More realistically, bringing in a former starter to challenge/support/relieve Darling might be the best stop-gap for at least one year.
I always thought that we should have gone hard after Eric Staal before the Vegas expansion draft last year when MIN had protection issues because he was exactly the player we needed; but was a former-Cane with too much history. To me, we are in a very similar situation with Cam Ward: he is actually the best of the alternatives but, like Staal, that’s not going to happen for all the same (and other) reasons. It would not surprise me at all to see Cam Ward have a great season next year as a very reliable 30-35 start guy; I just hope it’s not in the Metro.
(For the record, I am not advocating bringing Cam back: that would be the definition of insanity: doing the same thing and expecting different results. We just can’t, even if it’s the best option.)
I could not agree more with your comments regarding Ward and Staal and the comparison you linked.
In my mind – if Darling is the one coming back and his tag team partner is some big time question mark – even with comparable/slightly better career numbers than Ward but with zero organization familiarity and we expect them to come in and do a better job as a 1a/B than Ward?
Ward is not an amazing goalie but his ability to be a consistently mediocre starter to decent backup goalie is a valued asset in what is such a tumultous market. I am a believer in statistical regression and Scott Darling truly put up an EGG and the only likely direction I see his performance going if coming back is at least upward. We can CERTAINLY do worse than Ward and Darling – remember when people looked at Ward/Lack tandem and ran out the tandem saying well we are 29th in goaltending stats we can’t possibly do worse. Then lone behold we brought in a new guy with Ward and it was actually worse.
If we are looking for a goalie that can be a backup but if possible be a starter look no further than Cam Ward who has played more career games as a ‘starter’ than everyone on the list above. I agree if there was another choice it might be Lehner just because his statistics rate pretty high as a goalie, but Ward is a known commodity in terms of performance. Ideally the solution would be Ward + someone else, but the team might have made that impossible with Darling’s contract. If Darling is indeed returning in my opinion there are only 2 options :
1. Trade for a new true starting goaltender and let Ward go from free agency.
2. Sign Ward and return the combo.
Ward is unlikely to cost more than some of the mentioned names so to me he looks like a perfect match.
Why not?
On the human side, after Darling showed up unprepared and then failed at least partly because of it, you CANNOT just anoint him the #1 this summer. It would suck ever bit out of air and energy out of the entire locker room and 20 other players. Darling came in with a guaranteed role and gave it away. He now has to play his way back into it by producing. That is how hockey works and life too.
Even if we brought Cam back, he wouldn’t be annointed. I agree with you. He needs to earn it. At the same time, completely giving up on him seems like a mistake of similar proportions. What does it say about your team character, if you show up, screw up in your new job, and they just ditch you? Do no work to help you get back on your feet? This is business, it happens, but you show me that and I’ll show you a business that no one wants to work for.
We’re Carolina, not Toronto or Pittsburgh. We’re never going to attract players with money, or a super-hyped constant Cup environment.
If we want to keep getting quality players here, we need to keep building the family culture, one that gives you the resources you need to learn from and build on your mistakes, and only really penalizes you for REPEATING those mistakes.
Especially given the young guys coming up, do you want to put them in a situation where they are terrified to screw up, or where they are okay making mistakes as long as they can learn from them?
I just want to play devil’s advocate on the exact same point you want to make. You are saying we aren’t those teams that clearly generate HIGH pressure on players to perform – there is no hole to hide in Toronto when you are Jake Gardiner and plop a -5 in game 7 in the playoffs. So you are saying we need to bring in the ‘nice guy’ family atmosphere where we ‘treat you well’ after you are the worst starting goalie in the league.
But what if a side-effect of that is players that are naturally less motivated by winning and are more adversely affected by pressure and stress (things that exist in all hockey cities even if some are more than others)? What if we become a safe haven for the Alex semins of the world thinking hey – I can go to Carolina and get fat in the summer and if I play badly they will still give me chance after chance. I’m sure a certain population of players that I would NEVER want to see in a Canes uniform would love that sort of culture.
You can’t just build that happy go lucky 2nd chance environment with all the positive rammifications without expecting the negative ones. Think about it like this as well – Chicago was a hockey market hardcore and judges on performance – Did scott darling ever go into their training camp overweight? He always felt he needed to prove something there and if he had come in overweight and played badly do you think Chicago fans who love him so much would be so forgiving? But I see Carolina as exactly having this nice guy organization attitude across the league and I think it is actually a bad thing – you don’t need to be some big hockey market to breed successful hockey habits and I think Carolina is the type of place where players come and feel less pressure and feel more comfortable to have some extra hot dogs in the summer – because they don’t FEAR that they will lose their jobs here. They know that stuff doesn’t fly in LA, Toronto, Montreal etc – but maybe in Carolina they can get away with it.
I think the Canes have to model themselves after Nashville and Tampa Bay. These were once upon a time small market hockey teams that were inconsistent. They hit their stride with EXCELLENT general managers and coaches over time – along with developing the right way and now they are absolutely top tier hockey teams. They can attract free agents JUST fine. The culture change the organization talked about is exactly what the team needs to get away from – now we need EARN it stuff.
Why was Darling ever ANOINTED the starter going into last season anyway? Sure you can sign him as a starter but everyone should earn it. By that same logic just because Semin sucked should we have continued to play him? We signed him to be a first line winger. The human aspect goes multiple directions and taking a harder line approach as a franchise and not tolerating players who are not 100% bought into winning culture can also foster good things. I believe the approach you’ve defended has the possibility to encourage or should I say it fails to discourage laziness.
While I see your point, mine just acknowledges that the world does not exist in a vacuum and there were multiple factors contributing to an environment wholly conducive for Scott to fail.
There was no stable environment for him to step into, and by his own history, he’s not a very stable guy. As a fellow former addict, it is absolutely crucial to have that comfortable stable environment, otherwise the demons just come back and all hell can break lose. I think you’re correct. He should NOT have been annointed the starter. I think that hurt him quite a bit.
If he is willing to put in the work, the team should put the structure in place to help him succeed. And like all GOOD employers, they should work to put their employees in a position to help them succeed not only at their jobs, but in life as well.
I get your point, but as an employer the goal of the Canes is to succeed as a team. Hopefully that includes Scott Darling, but if he isn’t up for the task, no matter the reason, they have to find someone who is. When Darling signed the contract he knew what was expected of him. Hopefully he can bounce back and succeed, but it’s about putting the team in a position to succeed, not just Scott Darling.
Scotty came in with the understanding that he would have a team playing in front of him. We reneged on our part of the deal. We then let the coach abuse him (remember leaving him in for all 8 goals in the Toronto 8-1 loss?).
If we want him to be No. 1 then let him be that. If not, then buy him out or shoot him. But let’s not show the league that we don’t keep our commitments to our players.
It’s one thing to play poorly. It’s another thing to come in unprepared and play poorly. You can feel bad for the guy that does his work and things don’t go his way. (let’s use Nordstrom for example) You should not feel bad for the guy that doesn’t do his work in the offseason and then stinks up the joint. Big difference. Darling used up his goodwill last year.
All you can ask out of a guy is his best. Darling didn’t give his best. If there are other players that were out of shape or dogged it they deserve the same treatment. The only commitment Darling is due is the money he signed for. If someone else outworks and outplays him they deserve the job.
Do we know that Darling showed up out of shape. This is the only site where people are saying that.
I love Darling, I support Darling and I think a lot of fans give him too hard a time. He absolutely showed up out of shape. Many articles, Waddell, and even Darling himself admitted to that. I think Darling was the first actually lol.
Someone is hitting F5 a lot this am.
Matt – I am surprised you put Mrazek ahead of Khudobin. Granted, I expect Doby to re-sign with Boston but Khudobin has all the attributes you ascribe to Bernier whereas Mrazek had a brief period of success before the wheels came off. Even Anderson has show the vagaries of year-to-year goaltending.
Darling knows he is not coming in #1 this season – it is not his to lose; it is his to win. And I am convinced he is doing what he needs to do this offseason to bring himself back to his A game. Whether that succeeds or not is the risk factor.
I don’t think we bring in a proven starter – I don’t think they are out there for the taking. As TD would say, “why bring in someone who the former team doesn’t want?” – Mrazek, for example. If they are proven and good – they are unavailable. If they were proven but have slipped, we don’t need a reclamation project.
I am all for the idea of someone who has been largely a backup, but has had extended stretches of successful starting – Bernier and Khudobin, for example. I don’t think we will be able to afford – or want to pay up for – Hutton. But a Bernier (or Doby) can effectively compete for the starting job and push Darling, giving him the competition he needs.
The list isn’t so much an ordered ranking. I am not really high on either Khudobin or Mrazek. I view Khudobin as a good backup but not more, and I view Mrazek as too much of a boom or bust wild card.
I hope you guys get your way. We get rid of Scotty in what will be (for him) the most publicly painful and humiliating way. The same for Skinny. The players in the league will rather go to Ottawa than here.
Whoever we get to replace them will bomb out waiting for the team to screw them like we did Scotty and Skinny.
I will spend my money on football.
C’mon man…I am certainly not suggesting the team get rid of Darling. He just doesn’t deserve to be the anointed #1 goalie any more. The team needs another option that could take over if Darling doesn’t get it together.
Maybe I’m misreading you, but you seem to suggest that bringing in a challenger is unfair to Darling. I disagree with that, and that is the basis for the points I am making about Darling.
Maybe we’re over complicating things. Pit, Tampa and Vegas all had multiple goalies, I think up to 5, last season. They gave the kids a chance and the kids often did good (usually better than our tandem).
Maybe we should give our prospects a chance to come up and play a number of games, inject some energy into the team. Ned showed flashes of promise, Helvig has a lot of praise, why not go out on a limb and give those guys a few games here and there.
Not saying we don’t need a capable backup goalie, oh no precious, but that there is a third option if that goalie doesn’t pan out, at least for a few games, give the kids a chance.
Philly and Toronto have a log jam of goalie prospects with really high upside and I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility to go young and bet on those kids. It’s a gamble, but os is signing pretty much every goalie.
I have no sympathy for Scott darling. He has not earned the job of starter with Carolina despite being paid as one and being given a lot of chances. Many of the goals he let in last year had nothing to do with defensive breakdowns (many goals did but I’d say at least a quarter of the goals are shots he should have had or situations where he mishandled the puck, that’s not on the team in front of him).
Every players job is to be the best at his position. Every upcoming players job is to challenge and push them.
I’m all for Scott Darling putting the season behind him, coming out strong and proving all the naysayers wrong, it’d be another success story for him and his team. But he must do it! And we can’t bet our team’s success on it.
Goalies are unique in that there’s only 1 person in the net. Their mistakes are magnified compared to other players, which is a good and a bad thing. Every kid who decides to be a goalie knows this.
The Canes amangement is improving the defense in front ofhim and is trying to up the offense to score more goals. Both factors should be encouraging for the goalie.
I would very much like to know the source (outside of this site) of the rumor that Scotty showed up out of shape at the season’s beginning.
As for Skinny and the mantra that his play last season was defensively irresponsible. All of this because of a bad plus/minus rating? Hmmm! I guess we all know that plus/minus is not always a reliable reading of a player’s defensive play.
How about “takeaways”? I am told that takeaways are just what the term implies. One player takes the puck away from a player on the opposing team.
What does it say about Skinny’s defensive responsibility that he led the NHL last season in takeaways?
Why is it that people on this site bad mouth the owner as well as certain players?
What did any of them ever do to you?
Here you go. NHL.com interview with Waddell. See his comments on Darling.
https://www.nhl.com/news/carolina-hurricanes-likely-to-make-changes-says-gm-don-waddell/c-298865552
Thank you, sir.
Great point about Skinner’s takeways. Defensive play can’t just be narrowed down to play within your own blueline – where Skinner is admittedly not the strongest. But Skinner’s work ethic and ability to create turnovers and new scoring chances in the offensive zone and neutral zone without the puck is fantastic and evidenced by the statistics you linked.
Skinner is a valuable asset until the day he prices himself out by asking for 7+ mill a year, until then I say use him as a scoring piece needed to help this team or sell high.
The team sucked last year, and turned some nights that should have been fun distractions from work into disappointments and offered precious few moments for glory. That’s what the team did to me.
I can choose to stop following the team or to have fun analyzing the problem with my fellow Caniacs and imagine what needs to be done to get Carolina back on the hockey map.
I chose the latter, and Canes and Coffee has been a fantastic place to have fun, in good times and bad.
Thanks to you guys (including Powerless who has written many interesting and awesome posts, I really like opposing views as long as we don’t get all personal).
There are players that deserve to be criticized, there are players who are criticized unfairly, but since none of those players are reading the posts on this site, at least I find it unlikely, I don’t see how the criticism hurts them.
Nobody has suggested shooting our goalie, giving him a veggie during recess, or even taking his lunch away from him (I’d suggest taking Scotty’s second lunch away from him).
Just don’t take his elevenses from him, or his afternoon tea.
In all seriousness though, this is their work too. Their work is to entertain us, and more often than not, I was entertained, although not always happily.
I also don’t see how player criticism hurts the players, but if the players are open for criticism, then I think it’s fair that some of fanbase can be open for criticism as well. Not that fans don’t have every right to state their opinion or any discontent that they have with their team. But if I have to sit beside you listening to it, I’m going to respond, and we will disagree.
Honestly, though, that’s why I choose the latter too. I’m an overpatient SOB and i’ve learned a lot from all of you on the balances and different viewpoints that must be navigated to build a decent hockey team. You all are awesome. Just like Scott will be awesome too. I have the FAITH!!!
Less than stable, I guess I am suggesting that bringing in competition for Darling is self defeating. 1) it will certainly cause unnecessary and counterproductive distraction for both goalies. 2) it will no doubt be viewed by some fans, the press, and players in the league as unfair and callous. Who cares? We should.
We need a goalie who is highly motivated and positively focused. Do we really need a plug-in replacement if things don’t work out? Can we reasonably expect someone to be that for us without bringing his own baggage?
Let’s be realistic. The more the two goalies compete for the top job, is that much compete they leave in the locker room when they should be competing with the opposing teams.
Competition among teammates sounds all well and good. But it invariably causes bruised egos. That escalates to taking sides in the locker room. Soon you have a house divided against itself.
And the question is why? So that you can punish a player? It seems a waste.
The smart business decision here would be to decide what we want to do. Everybody knew that 2 captains was a bad idea. Dueling goalies is worse.
Commit! To Darling, to Ward, to Ned, to Lehton. To whomever. Tell him that he is your guy and then keep your word to him. Tell the backup that he is your backup. He will play a certain number of games per year and on game days when the top goalie is going to play, the backup does his job. He sits with No. 1 and goes over the book on the enemy; the coach’s system, player tendencies, etc. The backup provides moral support as well.
Powerless, I have to disagree with that sentiment. Competition can be friendly and fun, even if it’s for the same job. Most athletes, Darling included, are more relaxed when everything is going well. It didn’t go well last year so all the cracks were exacerbated.
Given a new environment and a friendly rivalry (I always want to beat the crap out of my best friend in sports, but we’re still friends after) it actually can psychologically push athletes to higher levels. The environment has to promote that though, while maintaining effort as well and a certain level of locker room chemistry definitely helps too.
Different sport, but I remember a quote from Ted Williams when he broke .400 on the final day of the season. ‘The umpire came to me and said, if you want to hit .400, you gotta be loose.’ The balance is keeping a loose, friendly atmosphere also while also one that pushes and rewards effort. Say what you will about Bill Peters, but I didn’t get a sense that existed in any sense for the team last year. If Rod can come in and get that situated, and we know he should have that capability, then the competition will be nothing more than friendly drive to win. And that’s totally okay.
Bring on another goalie. Let them drive each other. And try not to compound on Darling hating himself when he screws up.
Competition is the nature of sports. Darling has been dealing with this since some point in youth hockey. Juniors, college, minors, etc., if a team can find a better player, they will. Coaches and GMs jobs are on the line if they don’t. Unlike juniors, college, minors, etc., Darling has a fat contract they can’t take away from him.
Cam Ward wanted his job back last year. That doesn’t mean you don’t support your teammate. The Canes can’t take the chance that Darling continues to play like he did last year. Too many other people are depending on the team having solid goaltending. I will be very happy if Darling is the player providing it.
Fogger, we will have to agree to disagree. One of our problems last season was a complete lack of unity. There was no TEAM at all.
Friendly competition is quite rare among athletes when money enters the picture. This is especially true when the money is big.
When we look at the successful goalie tandems from last season, we all know who the No. 1s are. Backups? Not so much. The backups are very clear on who the man is. They are not him.
Fleury, Holtby, Helleybuck, Luongo, et al. There is no doubt in the minds of any of the backups that if they hope to get the No. 1 job, they pray the No. 1 gets injured or a trade involving either of them takes place. It is a tried and true arrangement.
Duelling goalies doesn’t work. Never. Ever.
For how long. Elliott and Allen worked for a while
Longer than 5 minutes.
According to St Louis it didn’t really work – seeing as when they moved on from Elliot they talked about their desire to have just one starting goalie.
They put up good numbers there but St Louis during those years (and still to this day) had one of the FINEST defensive corps in the entire league. It’s not surprising they both did so well together – and they are both in their own rights solid goalies.
It isn’t about the idea (using two goalies or using 1 goalie) it’s about playing the hand you have.
I am not saying that we must commit to Darling. We should. But no matter whom we select to be No. 1, we must commit to him. No matter whom we choose for the backup, he must commit to us.
See, I hadn’t thought about that aspect of the goalie situation.
If the team can’t trade Darling, then go for an up and coming goalie, get a prospect from one of the log jammed teams or give Ned a shot.