Today’s Daily Cup of Joe offers a set of quick hitters mostly on finalizing the team’s lineup for opening night.
Does it have to be either/or for Martin Necas and Julien Gauthier?
With Martin Necas penciled into the starting lineup entering training camp and Julien Gauthier surging during the preseason slate, there seems to be a back and forth as to which one will make the opening day lineup. But does it have to be one or the other? Warren Foegele has had a ‘meh’ training camp which continued into Wednesday’s game that saw him miss coverage on the penalty kill for one of Nashville’s goals and then take a bad penalty later. I think the case could also be made that if Necas and/or Gauthier figure it out that their ceiling is higher than a couple other players like Martinook and McGinn. Why be stuck on the expected group? Could it make sense to bump someone else to #13 to make room for both?
Joel Edmundson
The more I think about it, the I think that Joel Edmundson is an underrated part of yesterday’s deal. The party line right now is how deep the Hurricanes are on the blue line. That is true to an extent, but after watching the entire group of depth play in Wednesday’s game against a nearly NHL club, I said the following on Twitter:
Unpopular opinion maybe, but #Canes blue line depth is just that…'depth'. The group of D today who probably slot #7-#12 are maybe capable in a #6 slot but just make too many mistakes to fill in higher than that. Forsberg made it look better than it was at 3-0. #TakeWarning
— Canes and Coffee (@CanesandCoffee) September 26, 2019
The jury is maybe still out on Fleury, but at their current level of play, I do not see any of the depth defensemen as being capable of filling a top 4 slot on a team that plays at a playoff pace. Van Riemsdyk gave the team one possible top 4 fill in, and Edmundson adds another. With sometimes defensively aloof offense-leaning defensemen in Hamilton and Gardiner now inked into the top 4, I think Edmundson or even Edmundson/van Riemsdyk as a unit to backstop the top 4 for Brind’Amour.
The goalie situation
With another strong outing by Anton Forsberg on Wednesday night, there seems to be growing battle for at least the second NHL goalie slot. If the slot was truly dependent on a tryout, I think that would be the case, but I doubt that it is. Anyone with a good memory for the last decade-ish of Hurricanes hockey history knows that preseason goalie play means virtually nothing. Further, the team has an incentive to get Reimer up and going in net after a tough 2018-19 season. If he struggles, the team would obviously reach for help like it did with Darling in 2018-19. But I think ideal is if the Canes can get Reimer going such that he becomes tradeable next summer or sooner to make room for Nedeljkovic to at least audition for the role. Remember that Nedeljkovic will not be waiver exempt in 2020-21, so ideally the team needs to get him enough NHL ice time to see if he is viable at least as a backup next season.
So long story short, at least for opening night, I really think the goalie position is fixed and not subject to change based on a handful of preseason games.
Morgan Geekie
He will not likely play his way into the NHL mix for October, but Morgan Geekie has impressed me this preseason. My first impression of him in rookie camp a couple years back was that he had a pretty diverse set of tools offensively for his young age. He seemed agnostic to passing versus shooting, had a decent shot when receiving passes, could finish in close and just in general looked like the scorer that he was in juniors. The other thing that stood out was how he struggled in terms of acceleration and speed at transition points in the game. The mobility thing could be what determines if he can play at the NHL level or is just a very good AHLer. But in watching him in training camp and preseason, he is really just a good hockey player. His offensive game has grown from a pretty good starting point but maybe more significantly he generally gets it defensively too for a player who leans offense. He just turned 21 in July. It will be interesting to see if he can continue to make strides with his skating and/or if he can just overcome that limitation with enough strength in other areas of his game.
What say you Canes fans?
1) Could there be room in the Hurricanes lineup for both Julien Gauthier and Martin Necas?
2) Could Joel Edmundson wind up playing a significant role on the blue line past just being depth?
3) What are your thoughts on Morgan Geekie’s play thus far in preseason?
Go Canes!
Last night Roddy must have felt like he was living in a nightmare. It appeared as if our equipment manager had messed up and issued snow shoes to our guys instead of skates.
But no. Roddy, it wasn’t a nightmare. It was real. The equipment manager didn’t issue snow shoes. Our guys were wearing skates with nice sharp blades. And no. The ice was fine. Peter Laviolette’s young heroes had no trouble skating rings around our guys.
Poor Forsburg. He was the only Cane who showed up to play. And boy! Was he ever lonely! Oh, he had plenty of company in his crease all night long. But his company was wearing that hideous color Nashville players wear when they play at home.
I’m not an x’s and o kind of guy, so I’ll leave it to Roddy to critique the specifics. But our young heroes need to get it right. The old Edmonton Oilers left their keepers exposed all the time. But Gretzky and his crew scored more than their opponents.
We didn’t score Any Goals! ANY! Not one! Nichts! Nada! Nil! NOTHING!
I know. I know. Roddy was evaluating his young guys. Well. They made it easy for him to decide last night. Send them all to the ECHL!
Any hockey coach on any level will tell you that if you want to stay in a game, your feet must be constantly moving. I can’t remember when I last saw us in a game where nobody’s skates were constantly churning. But this was such a game.
Wow! I hope I never again see such a game. Never! Ever!
And now we touch briefly on our Haydn. How did he do last night?
He was playing on his off side. John and Tripp commented that Roddy was wanting to see if our Haydn could handle that, since in the position of #7 D, he would have to be able to fill in for an injured player on either side.
That made sense to me. So I watched closely. Then i saw Smith’s goal. Smith’s linemate carried the puck easily around our Haydn whose skates were motionless. When the puck found its way to Smith, he was all alone in the slot. Our Haydn was gliding on motionless skates intently watching Smith fire the puck past a hapless Forsberg.
I was comforted in the knowledge that playing on his off side didn’t take our Haydn off his play a bit. Whew! I was deeply concerned.
I was also relieved to see the intensity with which our Haydn watched the enemy player in the hideous sweater score against our keeper. I was reminded of his interview with Sara Civian. You remember the one where he shared that after all of these years, he has finally figured out that being his natural happy-go-lucky kid on the ice wasn’t going to work. He finally figured out that Roddy wants him to be an intense not-so- nice guy.
Well, I could see the difference in that one play. The old nice guy happy-go-lucky kid would have used a curling broom to give Smith a clear shot, unencumbered by ice shavings. But now, he just stood very still and watched intently.
That’s our Haydn. Roddy must be so proud of him! He has come so far in mere years!
Now to Necas vs. The Bull. I can see how this would be a difficult choice. On the one hand, we have a weak gritless fast skater who can pass, but has yet to figure out the secret of scoring goals in the NHL. On the other hand, we have a big strong fast skater who has figured out the secret of scoring in the NHL. He doesn’t think pass first. He loves to knock over enemy players while establishing a net front presence.
Yes. I can see where this would be a difficult choice.
i tuned into the game at the beginning of the 3rd period. Early on the camera panned over the Canes bench. The faces on the bench reminded me of my sons U17 soccer club. Nashville had already cut down to 26 players in camp. Virtually the team they will make deep run to the cup in the very difficult Central Division. Last night we largely learned how the Checkers would fare in that division. Taking much more than that from last nights game is a stretch.
1) There should be to start the season. Both have skills that will help them succeed. I also see a case for Kuokkanen. He doesn’t have one skill that stands out like Necas’ speed or Gauthier’s net rush, but he has put together two solid games. He was also more consistent than both Necas and Gauthier last season.
2) Not likely. The top 4 are going to get all the attention. That said, Edmundson/TVR will be a super solid 3rd pairing.
3) I like Geekie. But I don’t think he has shown more than expected. He looks to be at least one year away. Part of that is because his skill/role seems to be a scoring line center more than a disruption line center. I would actually expect Luostarinen and Bishop to get called up before Geekie due to his style.
Finally, I think I have been most impressed with Lorentz. For a player who played most of last season in the ECHL, he also looked like he is at most one year away from being a serviceable disruption line forward. Others had called his skating a big negative, but he was not noticeably poor. He has been noticeable using his size to take up space and engage in puck battles.
I agree about Lorentz. He was involved again last night. He does need some polishing, but lots to like. I would have to pay more attention to see if he struggled getting to his defensive assignments, but he hounded the puck in a good way. If a player only plays fourth line minutes they can often use energy to make up for sub par skating.
I almost forgot. I like what I have seen of Morgan Geekie, what little I have seen of him. But before.he comes to the NHL to stay, we must figure out what to call him. His real name cries out for a catchy nickname. Geekie? He must have learned how to fight in the schoolyard against kids who made fun of his name. That’s how I learned.
Our goalie “problem” is still.very much a high class problem. Knowing Donny and Tommy as I have come to know them, they have already figured out where they want to be as well as how to get there.
And now boys and girls, we have my favorite subject, Joel Edmundson. Thank you Donny. Thank you Tommy.
He will be a fan favorite. He will be the goalkeepers’ pet. They will buy him cars and bling. Our little weak gritless scorers will look at him as the man who prevents them from having their careers shortened.
In short, he is an adequate replacement for Michael Ferland. With him, our team is complete. If he stays healthy, he is our ticket to the Cup finals. Maybe the Cup?
Agree on Big Joel. Blues fans say he had a down year.
As far as our Hayden. He is not our Hayden, if the canes can get a pick for him then great. Otherwise waive and possibly bury him in Charlotte. He is a decent AHL d-man.
Maybe Ronnie will take him for future considerations.
If Dzingle is out any significant amount of time both Gauthier and Necas may stick. Neither really impressed me last night. Gauthier had a couple good shifts, but faded. Probably struggled keeping up with speedy Preds. Necas is still a floater, but he does look good on the PP.
On D the biggest bomb of the night had to be Bean. He got caught puck watching at least three times allowing his man to get behind him. No goals, but still bad. Still not very strong physically. He really didn’t create much either. He isn’t close in my book.
The other D had their ups and downs too. There were nice plays by Fleury and Forsling, but bad ones as well. It was basically a good AHL team out there vs a good NHL team.
Foegele is an issue. Not sure what the heck he is doing. Giving away pucks, taking penalties, blowing coverages. Not good. It’s like he’s too comfortable, maybe?
1) room for both, particularly with some injuries already cropping up. There is a high correlation between “new guys” and injuries, there is something about that split second between thinking and acting that makes a player subject to injury.
2) the secondary and tertiary benefits of having an enforcer make Edmundson valuable beyond his skill set. He was a missing piece. I will need to see him more to comment on backfill in the top 4.
All of the depth defenseman except mcKeown looked a step slow on the defensive side of the puck, each one getting skated around on occasion. They didn’t look bad, there is just more work to do to play against opponents top 6 forwards.
3) Geekie was really good defensively last night. The forward group as a whole skated with Nasheville’s speedy forwards, I was impressed by the group.
Geekie is kind of a larger version of Lucas Wallmark. The results are better than the sum of the parts, good things happen when they are on the ice.
1. Yes. There are a couple of factors in play here.
The first is Dzingel’s injury – how severe?, how long will he be out? That’s a door opening for someone.
The second factor is that Nino is nowhere effective on his offside (right) as he is on the left. Tripp made that comment at least once last night. He looked lost there.
So with Dzingel out, Nino could be moved back to the left and we now have two openings on the right. That’s once scenario.
RBA complimented both Necas (who hit a post, forechecked well, and made some nice plays in the d-zone) and Gauthier (who was, well, “Bull” – LOL!). But neither are really where RBA wants them right now. I still think it may not be “either/or” but someone else (Bishop).
2. Edmundson can play top-4 – his size, experience, and physicality overcomes any skill deficiencies to step up into that role if required. But he is definitely third pairing LHD if Slavin and Gardiner are healthy.
3. I overuse Vellucci’s phrase “trajectory” but when it comes to prospects “trajectory” is all important. Geekie’s trajectory hasn’t been as noteworthy, year over year, as Gauthier was but Geekie’s path has been positive and consistent.
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A few other notes.
I agree with ct about Lorentz – he has all the makings of a solid disruption player at the NHL level. It will be fun to watch how he plays in CLT this year.
I watched Gauthier after a few of his rushes and the ensuing scrums after the whistle. I could see him talking with a few of the Preds players – not sure it was chirping or what, but to me it showed that Gauthier is comfortable and confident at this level.
I would like to walk back my comments about McKeown being NHL ready after watching his performance last night. He was consistently outplayed. Fleury looked lost on his right-side. And maybe because Tripp kept mentioning Sellgren, he looked to be the only d-man having a decent game.
Thirty eight minutes of impressive goaltending by Forsberg – I was surprised Ned didn’t get any time. I wonder if that was the intent all along. I suppose there is the belief that we know what we have with him and we need to see more of the new guy. Also, I know by the final games of the preseason goalies are given full games.
I was also disappointed in McKeown. His awareness and decision making were poor. He didn’t seem to know where he was going with the puck nor where his teammates were. The NHL game may just be too fast for McKeown mentally. It sure looked that way last night.
I was also disappointed in Bean – and that disappointment seems to have been matched by RBA. Bean was sent to CLT today. He has a ways to go.
Bean was awful. Maybe he was overwhelmed, but he made basic mistakes over and over again. The guy just hasn’t seemed to change much over the years. Hasn’t put on significant muscle. Doesn’t take care of his own end. I would throw him into a trade as an add on if possible.
3) more. Instead of posting what I don’t know about Edmundson (JE) I will post what I expect, consistent with a late post last night. What I expect is based on the most simple hockey statistic of all WAR (Wins Against Replacement). If you replace player 1 with player 2, how many more (or less) wins are expected?
While Box’s Law applies – “All models are wrong, some are useful”, WAR is a useful statistic. It is based on complex underlying fancy stats and mathematical models (sorry traditionalists) but the end result is the most simple statistic of all. Corsica hockey uses WAR to rank players by position, and those ranking are used by “The daily faceoff” to rank line combinations. Fun stuff.
The canes top four D rank as 1st pairing D by WAR, in fact mostly in the top half of first liners. So most any replacement will be a step down. That said, TVR and JE both rank as 2nd pairing D by WAR. The expectation is that either would perform as well as an average 2nd pairing D in that role. And they should be quite solid as a 3rd pairing.
Here’s the current status of our player rankings, lines, and parings on the Daily Faceoff:
https://www.dailyfaceoff.com/teams/carolina-hurricanes/line-combinations/
By no means can I evaluate players like RBA can, but in my opinion, several of our young players who are on the cusp lack that “IT” factor. Some have had several camps to display this, while others may just need more time to develop.
The only young players last night who made an impression were Forsberg, Gauthier and maybe Sellgren. Others made a nice play or two, but seemed lost other times. That won’t be good enough in the NHL.
The eye test is debatable, but after watching the last two Canes preseason games, I don’t think Donnie is done tinkering.
I have to agree that our Hayden is becoming Work in congress (barely any progress).
He looked in over his head last night, he took at least one incredibly dumb penalty.
If he can be traded for a forward reclamation project, or with a first roun for a forward with potential (like the pool party) that would be great. If he is claimed by another team I don’t really see the harm in that either.
I would have preferred keeping Jurco (to be a mentor for Necas), Poturolski, or a certain D man that was traded out west.