Today’s Daily Cup of Joe is part 4 in a series leading up to the 2018 NHL Draft weekend and the offseason frenzy that begins in earnest with it.
If you missed the first three parts, you can find them here:
Part 1: Potential wheeling and dealing
Part 2: Potential targets (Teams A-M)
Part 3: Potential targets (Teams N-Z)
Today’s Daily Cup of Joe takes a turn at being the Carolina Hurricanes general manager.
Deals I would do
Disclaimer: I am not going to get bogged down in specifics of the trades past the principal players.
Jeff Skinner to Los Angeles for Jake Muzzin (or another top 4 defenseman)
As I have said multiple times, I think the time is now to make a long-term decision on Jeff Skinner and either sign him to an extension or trade him rather than risking a Tavares-like white knuckler late into the next season. By no means would I trade Skinner for pennies on the dollar, but if a reasonable offer arose, I would take it. In a nutshell, I just do not think Jeff Skinner is a player who is worth what his next contract will cost. He is a top-end player offensively but never really did figure out the balance also be at least an adequate two-way player. Ready to enter his ninth season in the NHL, at some point you have to evaluate a player based on what he is not what he might become.
Scott Darling to Chicago for Marian Hossa’s contract
Rumors and rumblings have offered a number of more sizable deals between the the regular trade partners, but I think simplest is to hash out a deal that sees Chicago reclaim Scott Darling with the Hurricanes eating some salary and the Hurricanes taking Marian Hossa’s contract. (Hossa is not expected to return to the NHL, so he represents a $5.275 million salary cap hit for three years but significantly only a $1 million per year actual salary.) I just think betting on a Scott Darling rebound is about as low of a probability as possible given other alternatives. The mental and emotional baggage is significant after the 2017-18 season. I also think improving goaltending is critical to rising up the standings. Finally, Ithink that Chicago makes a ton of sense. The Blackhawks need a backup for Crawford, and the return home is easily the most plausible story for a Darling rebound in 2018-19.
If the Hurricanes could pull this off, they would have shed about $4 million of salary and would have addressed what in my opinion are the two top needs in adding a goalie and a steady, stabilizing top 4 defenseman. The team would also become better defensively by subtraction with the trade of Jeff Skinner. No doubt the Hurricanes will need to add scoring over the course of the offseason.
Addressing the other rumblings
Noah Hanifin
If I could get him signed to a reasonably-priced bridge deal, my preference would be to patiently give Hanifin two more years to round into form. But if his agent pushes for a huge deal, I would strongly consider trading Hanifin for a new lottery ticket in the form of another top 8ish draft pick. I just think the risk-reward is out of whack for committing high $ for long-term to a third pairing defenseman who has upside.
Justin Faulk
Because his contract has another year on it, the situation is not as urgency for Justin Faulk. That said, I do think there is a chance that he gets traded, possibly to back fill offense needed with Skinner’s departure. Give me a comparable forward, and I would at least consider doing the deal.
Andrei Svechnikov
Over the next couple days, there will certainly be rumors that the Hurricanes are considering trading the #2 overall draft pick. I do not buy it. Everything that I read suggests that Svechnikov has pulled away from the pack of forwards. As a high-end player with the potential to be elite, it makes no sense to trade for a veteran.
Call for patience
Though I do think Canes fans will see a significant deal or two this summer, I think the probability is high that the team emerges from the upcoming weekend without having made a significant deal yet. Jeff Skinner is part of an unusual mix of available talent at left wing with Ilya Kovalchuk returning to the NHL and Max Pacioretty also allegedly available. So I peg the odds at a fairly low 1 in 3 chance for this weekend.
What say you Canes fans?
1) If you had to boil down this week’s daily spit-balling and make a deal or two, what would they be?
2) Do you think we see a trade this weekend, or will we have to wait?
Go Canes!
You’ve put forth the perfect scenario to go 3/4 the way, but still need to obtain a goalie which is the primary concern. We now have a spot, how does it get filled?
Was going to write that up separately. To be honest, I am not thrilled with most of the options available, but I do think just from adding a goalie with a clean slate and no existing baggage in itself significantly boost the probability of success.
Things can shake out in various forms with likely a few surprises. Agree we need to solve the starting goalie riddle, and in doing so I think we need a proven NHL starter versus hoping for a backup to rise to the occasion. I also think the Islanders will outbid us for Grubauer. Maybe we take on a free agent backup in addition to, but here’s my shot at guessing:
Out – Skinner, Faulk, Darling and a prospect or two + 2019 1st
In – Muzzin, Saad, Hossa, Enstrom (FA)…and drumroll…either Jake Allen, James Reimer or Jonathan Bernier (all have been starting goalies who have at one time or another led their teams to the playoffs).
RFA re-sign – Hanifin, Lindholm and lockup Aho early
…that said I’m probably wrong on 80% of this.
I mostly agree with the proposed deals although it seems more likely that Faulk would get traded for a d-man and Skinner for a forward. The Darling deal makes a ton of sense but we may have to get Anton Forsberg in return (u/c for 1 year at $750,000 but would provide depth in Charlotte).
My wild predictions:
1. Skinner to San Jose for Tomas Hertl and a draft pick.
2. Hanifin – 3 year bridge deal about $4M per yr.
3. 3-Way Deal – Faulk + Martinook to Edmonton for Klefbom and Lucic (with
some retained salary); then either Klefbom or Hanifin to Montreal for
Pacioretty and a high draft pick.
4. If the 3-way deal with Edmonton doesn’t happen then –
Faulk + Rask + high draft pick to Buffalo for O’Reilly, Bogosian (some
retained salary) and RFA rights to Robin Lehner.
5. Goalie – The less risk the better. Lehner as a proven starter or Lehtonen/other UFA goalie to share duties with Ward.
Possible Sleeper UFA signings – Plekanek, Emelin, Luke Schenn.
I think we will see a trade this weekend.
1. What is the big attraction to Muzzin that you are willing to give up a 30 goal scorer to obtain him. He’s a 29 year old defenseman with a couple of years remaining on his contract. If you want to unload Skinner, go big. Trade him for something like the 4th pick and take Tkachuk. There are enough free agent defensemen out there that are as good as Muzzin who require no assets to get. If you were talking about Muzzin AND Toffoli (sure would do) or Muzzin and a first round pick, then the deal would make more sense.
2. Keep Darling if you are just going to dump him for nothing. Right now you need a starting goalie (Darling is not it RIGHT NOW). Go out and get that piece and Darling slots as a number 2 backup. Otherwise you are putting yourself out there to find two goalies instead of one. One will be hard enough.
3. Hanifin: Waddell was on Hockey Central and stated trying to sign to new contract. Waddell stated the rumors about trading Hanifin started when one GM called and asked about Hanifin. The next day that GM put it out there that Hanifin was available which was not the case. Then he started getting calls from many teams. Apparently other teams and Waddell think more of him than some of the contributors to this site. IMO you are making a big mistake if you trade him away unless the deal was lopsided in our favor. Please tell me what has been so bad about Hanifin’s play (be specific), that you would want to ship him out of here. Sounds to me like a move a loser would make to save a couple of bucks.
4. Svechnikov: Waddell has stated as late as yesterday no way they are trading the number 2 pick.
5. Listening to Waddell I would say the Canes are going to make a significant trade, but it isn’t going to be until after July 1st. If one is made before then, it will be to get the 4th pick in the draft to be able to draft Tkachuk (assuming Montreal does not go for him). This deal would also involve Skinner and Boreweiki the big tough defenseman (sorry about the spelling).
Skinner only has 1 year remaining on his contract. If he is not part of the plan (match of role and cost of next contract), then now is the time to part ways, get maximum return and move on in my opinion.
My bold Prediction. Tkachuk is going to fall out of the top 5. He could drop out of the top 8-9 easily.
Zadina is the clear cut No2 Forward in this draft and then I think it falls off after him. Montreal is reaching for The Center Kotkaniemi. Then Zadina will go to Ott… Then the big run on D
1) While the rumors have cooled down, my favorite is Faulk and Darling to Chicago for Saad and Hossa’s contract. If I am GM, Saad is exactly what I am looking for: a LW who is good for 20-25 goals, doesn’t turn the puck over or commit penalties, and can fill in on the penalty kill. He should be a perfect complement for Lindholm/Svechnikov. As GM, my primary goal is to do everything possible to allow Svech to succeed as a rookie.
With Faulk’s departure, there is a hole for right-D to pair with Hanifin. So I trade Skinner to SJ for Braun and 2019 2nd. I think Skinner has value, but due to him being in the last year of his contract, I think a deal like this is about the maximum return.
As I argued earlier this week, Braun is Hainsey from 6 years ago with a tiny bit more offense. I plug in Braun with Hanifin (whom I sign without reservation) and implement a system that allows Hanifin to become more offensive–because Hanifin can get to 50 points if used correctly. I really like a D group of Slavin/Pesce, Hanifin/Braun, Fleury/TVR. The power play can be Hanifin and Pesce (or Slavin if RBA is ok not having a right-shot D). The PK can be Pesce/Slavin/Braun/TVR or Fleury. My second GM priority is to give the D a veteran who stabilizes the second unit.
As a point of interest on moving Darling, does anyone know if retention can be conditional like draft picks? I would make the deal that Carolina retains $2M on Darling the first year and only $1M if he plays more than 25 games.
2) I believe the odds of a trade before the end of the draft are 75%.
I like those trade proposals!
You get my vote for arm chair GM of the day.
The goalie situation has yet to be addressed.
I wish the Canes could have pulled off a Hoffman trade like the Sharks did, taking advantage of the Ottawa situation to ship out an under performing asset and get a few extra picks (no offense to Rask, ok maybe a bit offense, but if we could have swapped out Rask for Hoffman, definitely).
I am going to go with Faulk or Hannifin to Tor for their first round pick, Kapinen and Sparks (goalie prospect).
Then trade Walmark and Toronto’s pick to Tampa for Stralman and go after JVR in free agency, give him a lucrative 2-year deal and a chance to play with family.
1. Skinner for a roster player?; or Skinner for a first round pick and a prospect? I have heard the latter more in the rumor mills and the former on the fan posts. But with Kivalchuk and Pacioretty and now possibly Panarin the timing is affected.
2. Would CHI take Darling back as a reclamation project to dump Hossa’s salary? Is that good for us? Is that a one-for-one? – or do we combine with Faulk-Saad? Do we make that price for taking Hossa’s contract? Or do we say Faulk for Saad and we’ll take Hossa’s contract. I think that latter may be more likely.
3. I had been hearing that Hanifin was going to be traded on the basis of culture and not talent. Waddell’s comments the other day suggest otherwise. I have to agree with you, Matt, that a bridge contract makes the most sense – but Waddell was talking long-term. Is this positional talk? I could see us trading him for an offensive prospect like Zadina or Tkachuk if either was available at 5-7.
I heard Waddell’s comments on Hanifin. I am all for having additional patience in hopes that he is about ready to put it all together.
But assuming the price in the the Pesce/Slavin range ($4-5M per year), I just do not get the idea of signing him long-term. I think it totally puts the cart before the horse. As of today, he is a capable #5/#6 defenseman. The going rate for that type of player is $1-2 million. So placing a 5 or more year bet at a $3-4 million premium makes not sense to me risk/reward-wise. Let’s take the scenario where you do a bridge deal for 2 years at $3.5 million and then he breaks out and earns a $7M per year contract for 5 years. The average salary for the 7 years is only $6M. Why not just avoid the risk and possibly pay a modest $1M premium if he emerges?
I don’t disagree, Matt. And that makes me wonder what may actually be going on. How much of the talk is positional – how much is substantive. Waddell had some more interesting comments about Darling as well – comments that made me think they are prepping with the idea that he will be staying. There was a track record with RF and his commentary – to date, there isn’t one with the much more talkative Waddell.
Okay guys. I had my fun proposing trades. But, truth be told, I am in favor of standing pat. Let’s add via draft and maybe a veteran UFA who is too attractive to pass on.
I think we are ready to make the playoffs. Yes, that means I want to give Scotty a second chance. It’s the devil-we-know vs. the devil-we-don’t-know.
Now the Canes brain trust probably disagrees. There will likely be at least one trade. Hopefully, it will make sense and be a good one.
Agreed! If we still had the same coach (GM?) and no Svech then I would think more about the trades…. For me it is hard to evaluate based on last year (I know, sorry this is a broken record). We have talent on this team. Let’s see what/if Skinny, Faulk, Hanny can rebound before we get rid of them.
I am totally with you here. Let’s bring back Faulk and Skinner for another go at it and if anything they 1 or both can boost their stock going into their final season of contract. Add in free agents – possibly MULTIPLE free agents to supplement the team and with Svechnikov this can be a playoff team.
I’m all for changing the goaltending but to go from Darling to another career backup goaltender i’m not going to say is a surefire upgrade. I’d go back to the same combination and hope for them to perform better and eventually just sit on their hands until one of the prospect goalies is ready. I hate to see all this discussion of Ward leaving I mean he was one of the only consistent performers all last season. To sub out Ward for someone like LEhtonen as a back up is not an upgrade at all.
I fear there are just too many lateral moves being made – Faulk for scoring, Skinner for defense. Literally the definition of lateral moves. There is no scenario on earth where Justin Braun is a better defenseman in the top 4 than Justin Faulk – even the bad Justin Faulk is still at worst a borderline elite offensive dman with passable defensive skills. I’ll pass on a ‘solid 4/5 dman’ in Braun. Muzzin is a far better option if we are talking about bringing in a dman – as would some potential free agents like Mike Green.
Overall though I hope this regime has some Ron Francis in them and will at least refuse to sell low on any of Faulk or Skinner – if it means they are back again next year NO problem. The clear need in my eyes is exactly opposite to what Tom Dundon said – go get some veteran free agents on shorter term deals even if the cap hit is a slight overpay.
I’d take Rick Nash here on a 3 year deal, same with Paul Stastny. David Perron, James Neal, Tyler Bozak, PAtrick MAroon… all guys who could really help the top 9 here. That’s excluding the top fish in JVR/Tavares – even the 2nd tier options are solid Justin willams type guys who can bring along a young team.
Hockey trades are tough to predict because GMs have so much to consider. Player fit, salary, culture and the GM is working for his job so he has to consider that as well.
I think most fans, myself included, want to see trades that they can say wow about in a good way. Yet I would prefer to see no trades instead of bad ones. This is the new brain trust’s opportunity to shine so I hope they do well. I would like to see Panarin(sp)?, Barkov, Hamilton and Bobrovsky on the canes this fall but that is not happening.
I do think the team will be different by the end of the draft. A trade for a first round pick wherein we take a Finnish forward is still my wild prediction.
I agree with RedRyder, why are we giving up Darling for nothing? Matt, respectfully, you also said ‘would have addressed what in my opinion are the two top needs in adding a goalie and a steady, stabilizing top 4 defenseman.’ I do not see how this addresses our goalie problem. I think I am a broken record at this point in saying that this revolving door we’ve had for five years needs to stop, at least for one season. Carter Hutton, James Reimer, and Malcolm Subban would be as big of gambles as another year of Darling, and Grubauer, while I support going after him in a trade, is still a Darling 2.0 situation. There are no guarantees, and there is no going into the 2018-19 season with no uncertainty in goal. No matter who is here, no matter who we sign or trade, no matter if we stole Pekka Rinne from the Predators, we have zero idea of what goaltending we will get next year. That is the very nature of goaltending. Let Scott get comfortable and give him a chance to work off a very bad season, give him someone to push him and let’s gamble again, because we’re going to do it anyway, no matter what happens.
I think we will see a trade. I think Skinner is great, but I see a lot of players in the mid-teens in the first round that I think would really fit in with what the Canes are trying to build. And if we can get a Dallas (13) or Colorado (16) to throw in a prospect along with their pick for Skins, then I think that is the most likely trade we see. I call trade with Dallas with Skins going there for the 13th and Jake Oettinger.
After arguing with you Matt, all last year about the defense, I agree that you were right, and that we could probably do with another d-man this year. All that being said, I think your close for patience was exactly spot on. With Svech and Necas coming in, our rebuild is seemingly going near perfectly on paper. Now it’s seeing the foundations solidify on the ice.
As for Hanifin, pay the man. This isn’t about fairness or cheapness, this is about the reality of a 21 year old All Star defenseman who is FAR more likely to get better than he is to get worse, or even just stay the same. Who cares if he isn’t a Top 2 yet? Defense can develop slower sometimes. Value the talent, bet on him to improve and pay him. Plain and simple.
“All that being said, I think your close for patience was exactly spot on. With Svech and Necas coming in, our rebuild is seemingly going near perfectly on paper. Now it’s seeing the foundations solidify on the ice.”
And we got rid of the person who put this in place! Sorry, I know this is not from your questions Matt… just saying…
Truuuth
RF didn’t want to play ball the TD way. Nothing more and nothing less. There was a substantive contrast in style and personality – something which Waddell confirmed. Nevermind the alleged catalyst for RF’s demotion-by-promotion..
Amen, fogger. Amen.
I’m starting to get nervous at how many rumors seem to be surfacing around a possible Lindholm trade due to contract negotiations.
I really, really want to see Lindholm centering Svech and think he could have the breakout season we’ve all been waiting for a la Couturier with Giroux.
100% fervently agreed, virtus
For sure I would hate trading Lindy! He is building for a breakout!
I’ve also been a Lindholm fan-boy and really want to keep him; his best years are still in front of him and I think he has at least another gear higher. The only consolation is that he would fetch a great package back.
Actually, a Canadiens fan blog illustrated Lindholm’s value perfectly (and very objectively) in a comparison against Ryan O’Reilly. I highly recommend the read if you haven’t seen. I never want to trade Lindholm, ever.
https://www.habseyesontheprize.com/analysis/2018/6/21/17486590/elias-lindholm-ryan-oreilly-trade-speculation-montreal-canadiens-top-line-centre-options-draft
Thanks for the share! Fingers crossed we don’t give him away…
yes… I would like to see a Skinny, Lindy, Svechy line. If that worked, then whoa!!!!
Lindholm is one of the players RBA specifically identified as wanting to help get to the next level so I think is in the team’s plans. That said, contracts are contracts. Even more said than that, Lindholm is a RFA. We make him a qualifying offer and reserve the right to match whatever offer sheet he gets elsewhere. If we choose not to do so there will be multiple draft picks coming back our way. Am I missing something in that play?
But contract issues with Lindholm make me wonder how tight-fisted ownership will be with the players. Is this contract issue because we are lowballing him? Or does he and his agent overestimate his value?
Raleightj- I think you have some solid concerns but do you think there is a Rask effect here? Sign a promising young player who has not met high expectations to a long term deal. Then he never reaches those expectations. I don’t know if it’s money or expectation management.
I am hoping it is not cheapness on the part of ownership/management. There is little institutional memory of the Rask signing – just reminders every time one looks at the contract list. I think Lindy needs one more “show-me” bridge contract, but one that comes with a significant pay raise. Lindy may be wanting something longer-term – and that would be a legitimate difference in negotiating positions. But he is not a 6×4 player – and we made the mistake of thinking Rask might be. So possibly both money and expectation management.
I don’t really have the same concern because when I listen to Rask and Lindholm despite the Swedish connection they strike me as entirely different people. Rask seems like a more easy-going person – maybe a bit hard on himself and nervous. Lindholm seems more intense like he will be the guy talking smack in scrums and getting angry with opposing players – the type of ‘human’ I think fits well into the competitive structure of hockey. I don’t have any issue with locking up Lindholm to a long-term deal at a reasonable cap hit – as long as they pay him for his baseline performance (that of a 3rd – 2nd liner) and not on some potential he has yet to reach.
These rumors are a negotiating ploy. The canes tell Lindholm that he either signs the new contract or he is getting shipped to Calgary and skating for Bill Peters. Lindholm signs the deal. ?
Seriously though who would Calgary trade? They have no high picks and Hamilton and their star forwards are off the table. Just rumors.
Im fine with trading Skinner if its for a veteran D if we trade Faulk for a winger. I don’t get the Picks and prospect conversations. So say we move Faulk out for Saad – then Skinner out for Muzzin. I think we are a better team as long as its not for picks. We need a goalie, a top 4 D and a top 6 winger.
I hope we see a trade this weekend. As long as its not the No.2OA!
I’m not ready at all to move on from Hanifin. I actually don’t get the huge concern with him. He just had his best season and is making improvements. He has been in the same system, and that system hasn’t been about letting players do what each does best. From his draft class he has played the most games (McDavid, Eichel Included)… And has a whole season of games played than the next closest D. I think he is a dynamic player. Ohh.. He doesn’t even turn 22 until Jan
I think Faulk is a great skater and is still a good player. He just looks disinterested at times… which is strange since he is a Captain. I agree that he has regressed, I am concerned for sure. I think if he put up 17 goals again last year people would be happy with him. Keep in mind that his shooting % dropped in half from last year. Same shooting percent and he is in the 16 goal range. I think Faulk and Hanifin’s numbers would look better if he had some better scorers up front. That would also open up his shooting lanes a little better. Cant trade both him and Hanifin. I wouldn’t want to trade either, But I can get on board with loosing Faulk, with a good return.
I think our D is an issue… Its funny to me when I see people say that our D is a strength. The potential of our D is great… But we need a legit top 4 veteran in our group. We don’t need the flashy guy, just the solid mistake free guy that is hard to play against.
I think Fluery can and will develop into that guy. That still seems like a ways off.
So say we move Faulk out for Saad – then Skinner out for Muzzin. I think we are a better team.
Trading Skinner for a draft pick could be difficult. Most teams are much closer to the salary cap than the Canes and taking on Skinner’s salary will likely mean some salary coming back in return. Frankly, I don’t think many teams in the top 12 of the draft would give that up for a one zone player who will be a UFA next year.
As far as giving away Darling…as if they could! What value does an overweight, failed #1 goalie making $4M plus a year have? I think the best bet the Canes have is to hope he loses the weight and comes back with a strong mindset. If not, stash him in Charlotte.
Getting a “proven” goalie is almost impossible. No team gives up a real #1. You get a maybe #1 and hope they are the real deal. Grubauer is the best bet. He actually earned the job in Washington and played quite well in the regular season. He got the hook early in the playoffs, but that’s a whole lot better resume than Darling had. Just the same, they can’t go into next season with only Darling and Ward. Recipe for disaster.
Looks like they want to sign Hanifin. It’s a huge risk. He has shown little growth in the defensive zone. He still panics, throws pucks away and gets beaten regularly. He brings little on the power play. (7 points for the season while a pp regular) He’s big, skates well, but has shown little grit or much of a hockey IQ. He could get better, or he could stay the same. If he stays the same and the Canes pay him long term you are looking at another Rask situation or worse. That’s bad for a low budget team.
I expect we will hear more rumblings coming from agents about trades. Dundon isn’t paying and agents will then stir the pot. It will be a long summer if you are expecting FA signings or quick contract resolutions, IMO.
Did you know the cap just rose by like $10 million dollars? I feel like that’s an important factor that could change the difficulty of trading Skinner.
Many of the big dollar teams already have that figured in. It’s not like there is a big gap for the bigger spending teams. They want to extend their good young players too.
And some of the big dollar teams want a 30 goal scorer to put over the top, after they just blew 15 million on Martin Hanzal
I’m not sure exactly what the priority order is, but the organizational goals this offseason are to: change the culture, improve the goal-tending, and get tougher to play against. With that in mind:
1/ I’d pull the trigger on the Skinner trade for a package of primarily a stabilizing d-man or a 1st-rd draft pick. I love watching Skinner and value his goal-scoring, but the net-net-net for me, when I consider his defense, the return in a trade, and the probability of his re-signing as a UFA with the team whereby he leaves with no return, is that we just have to move now.
2/ As for Darling back to Chicago, a few points. First, by retaining 1/2 of Darling’s salary and taking on Hossa, we only save $1M a year in cash but CHI saves more than that in cap space; the cap space is more valuable to them than the cash so I don’t think that’s balanced enough. Second, I’d give Darling another year to sort out his game while we find either someone to push him for the #1 (though there aren’t as many candidates this year) AND Ned gets more NHL ready (the ’19-’20 solution). Third, if we did this trade, I think it would have to be a larger deal – I like the idea of including Faulk and Saad as the other principle pieces.
3/ Hanifin – I counsel patience. I agree with fogger that he is going to improve and I believe his ultimate ceiling isn’t any lower than Provorov or Werenski or Sergachev or McAvoy even if they’ve progressed a little faster – there are many years of high-level hockey left in all those players so I would hate to give one up this early – unless we get a deal we can’t refuse. I’d much prefer to trade Faulk and get less back (see culture as objective #1).
4/ Do not trade the #2 and pick Svetch.
5/ If we trade Skinner for defense, then I also trade Faulk – to CHI (see above) or to DET or DAL (for a 1st). I’d add NYI and NYR and PHI to the list of trade partners (they each have extra 1sts) but I doubt we’d do something inside the Metro. I also liked the idea of a deal with TOR that included Sparks and Kapanen. I think TBY for Tyler Johnson is also interesting but with Svetch and some battlefield promotions from CLT and maybe Necas (if ready), I don’t think we necessarily have to replace Skinner’s offense with a roster player.
6/ That leaves the goalie situation. I’m at a loss. It depends what happens above.
I absolutely agree with you that changing the culture has to be the primary organizational goal. As much of a Hurricanes fan as I am – and I have cheered the team through the past 5 years of bleh results because I saw effort and determination, at the end of last season things got painful to watch. We were not tough to play against because the culture had fallen off the cliff – we were, indeed, tougher to play the previous three years.
Which is why there has to be some change in the core veteran group. This isn’t all on Bill Peters. Whoever were the problems in the room must go. If they stand pat it’s only a matter of time to when things get tough and that/those players go back to their old ways. Even if the Canes don’t get top dollar for that player(s) the team is better off for it.
Exactly, lts. We don’t know the names. We do know that Staal indirectly called out some of the players towards the end of the season (“Most of us are fully in…”). TD is on record of changing the culture and changing the roster – that was on my source on roster turnover. His friend did it with the Mavs after he bought that club. Waddell said we can’t go in to next season with the same roster as last – and talent isn’t the only factor.
Changing players to change the culture helps the team and helps the other players. Addition by subtraction – ask CO.
Let me add these options with EDM:
a) If we get a Top-4 D in a deal for Skinner, Faulk + Wallmark for #10OA + Puljujärvi
b) Faulk + Rask + #42OA for Larsson + #10OA
SOLD! Little more partial to B…but both A and B work in my opinion.
I’m interested in reading how changing the culture in the organization equates to essentially the rumors surrounding 3 players – Hanifin, Faulk and Skinner. Now I’m no expert on their committment level behind the scenes I can only judge based on what I see on the ice – and it really surprises me to see Skinner being compared to the other two in terms of that sort of culture. I see Skinner as entirely fitting into that competitive culture the team needs to build – he is so passionate on the ice and to me always looks like he is working 110%. Even if his hard work isn’t necessarily the most hockey intelligent decision all the time I truly do not question his work ethic or his compete level. Furthemore when he is interviewed I find he shows emotional frustration with losing and poor performance much more than when HAnifin or Faulk are interviewed.
So from a lineup fit perspective – as skinner is a bit of an isolation offensive player so maybe fits better on an offensively utilized 3rd line I can see him being a left wing to be traded for value. However if it has to do with culture I just don’t see him being part of the issue.
Hanifin and Faulk both look 10x more aloof and disheartened on the ice and in their interviews than Skinner. Waddell is on record discussing Hanifin in the long term plans so I’d take him off the trading list. Considering the team has scoring issues and powerplay issues does it make a lot of sense for them to trade a good puck moving right handed defenseman on a good contract at a reasonable age ? I dont really think so. Overall as maybe a minority of people here have stated but I will also support – the Canes should be hesitant to move any of these players unless the return is great.
At very least wait until after free agency opens – if all of a sudden all the good free agent forwards sign elsewhere and even worse sign with division rivals – then I’d start panicking a little more and looking to change out Faulk or Skinner.
fifty…your comments certainly have merit. I think at least one of the above mentioned gets dealt for culture change, but agree we cannot over do it either. Those answers lie within those who know best (which is likely Coach Rod).
Those who were in the locker room know the best – that would be Staal and Williams. Whether there is a Willy->RBA pipeline is unknown.
My concern is the same as lts – that we don’t move enough such that when the going gets tough the old patterns in the locker room return and culture goes to hell.
Time will tell. As disappointed as I was with the team the last third of the season – more so than at any other time since I have been a Canes fan – I would like to see a major turnover.
Waddell said 5-6 Charlotte forwards are expected to compete for NHL roster spots. I am still not sure I trust his public words, but that implies a lot of turnover – and that young corps needs high end leadership.
Fifty – a player can be uber-competitive and still be a bad role model in the locker room and contribute to a team malaise.. I don’t know if fits Skinner or not, to be honest. But the apparent interest in moving him by management seems to speak volumes.
I guess we all see what we want to see….myself included. I see Skinner as a guy who only plays hard in the offensive zone. A guy who doesn’t play defense the way he should. A guy who won’t get his body in on the sidewall and get that puck out of the zone. To me that is a lack of commitment to the team.
It is amazing isn’t it! I don’t see what you see – I see a guy who has actually come a long way from being the way you describe in the defensive zone to being perfectly average as the high winger at the point man who is supposed to be one of the first defensive players out of the zone.
Furthermore the wall play you are referencing in the d-zone I’m not going to deny – that is part of what makes him a limited defender but when I look at the other zone – The Canes have a HUGE need for net front scorers. Who is one of their best forward scorers around the net? None other than little hard worker Jeff Skinner who has had enough concussion issues to even make me worry about the danger he risks – but nonetheless he scores to many goals in close because he is a fearless offensive player.
Unlike 6ft2 Victor Rask with the perfect centerman body who floats around the perimeter and can’t win an offensive zone battle…
The thing we can ALL agree on despite our differing views regarding Skinnner – and hanifin and faulk is that we hopefully all trust Rod the bod to have a BIG say in who stays or goes from a ‘culture’ perspective.
My guess is the public comments from DW and TD via recent interviews are for posturing. If I were GM Waddell, Skinner/Faulk+ will be dealt for fair returns. No question the dynamic needs changing. The question remains how much will be…
Now the media reports that Lindholm has a lot of trade interest.
https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/1560791
This is Lindholm’s agent stirring the pot, IMO. Dundon lowballed Lindholm, so his agent is stirring up interest. I expect a lot more of this as the summer progresses from players that are looking for a new contract from Dundon’s Hurricanes.
Lindholm is not getting lowballed. His asking price is too much.
You and I rather disagree on that point. I think his defensive abilities, along with his positional versatility is being undervalued by many. Further, potential is something of a factor you have to pay for. That’s just the reality of the situation in the NHL, and Lindholm still has a ton of it. Lock him down before he realizes his ceiling, because we all know he’s not at his.
Fogger- I am huge fan of Lindholm. Yet the canes are paying for potential for Rask and Darling. Potential doesn’t win games. If he gets 5 mil a year and averages 45 points a year that is an overpay. I think we agree that we want Lindholm on the team for a long time. Yet the team can’t pay players what the player thinks he’s worth. A lot of payroll is coming in Aho, TT, maybe Hanifin, Necas and the Russian. Edmonton is a great example of overpaying to end up losing. Canes can do better
Would not be surprised to see Lindy dealt. No matter who gets dealt, goaltending and top 4D are the two areas of greatest need. A top 6F would be a bonus. If we can garner all three, plus draft Svech, then I would consider this an excellent weekend.
I disagree. Little chance the Canes will deal Lindholm, IMO. They think he has more in the tank and they control his rights for a couple more years. This is just contract BS. I’m sure Lindholm’s agent would love to see him traded. Heck, Lindholm may want out as well, but I think there is little chance Dundon lets go of a talented player that he doesn’t have to pay top dollar.
Agree here. Lindholm is the type of top 9 player that you need on a playoff team. So versatile – doesn’t play an forward position badly, responsible 2-way game, hard working, good on faceoffs.
Offensively he has yet to put it togethe – maybe he doesn’t even have a higher gear offensively but if we toss aside the #5 slotting and the missing out on Monohan (factors that maybe make his 40-50 pts seem more disappointing) – this is a good player who the team should keep moving forward. His value to the team will hinge quite a bit on his contract – if he is overpaid and expected to produce 55+ pts then forget it but if they can bring him in somewhere between 3-4.5 million on a long term deal I’ll be happy.
I can see him as the 3rd fiddle for an elite first line, a passable part of an elite shutdown line with Jordan Staal, or even a quasi-elite 3rd line center/winger who can play on any sort of a line. Where Skinner is a specialist who might be hard to fit into a lineup Lindholm is a coach’s dream who you can play anywhere.
TSN just reported that the Canes and Lindholm are about a million dollars a year apart. Canes want just over 4 mil a year and Lindy wants just over 5. Based on this and the fact that they are meeting today, my dream would be Svech and an extension for Lindy too. With Krepelka doing the negotiations, I hope for a 6 year 28.5 million dollar deal, (though I’d totally gamble on Lindy for a 6×5 if we’re being perfectly honest).
If TD is playing the lowball game he never should have bought the team in the first place and his real purpose must be other than leading the team back to success.
I understand that players and their agents will always try to maximize the profit from their deals, that’s the nature of the business, and I think the team should push back to ensure that deals represent the true value of the player, not the self assessment value, but if the team goes past the limit of “reasonable” the players will stop coming.
The chance isn’t gone yet but the new management has done nothing to impress me so far. No real moves have been made, just silly arguments over Chuck Kaiten etc.
The only good thing the management has done is moving up to #2 pick, and if the league plays by the rules that is pure luck, but that luck won’t be enough if the management is so busy penny pinching that it won’t bring in the necessary players.
I think a lot of the team morale starts with the goalie. That is the guy who is ultimately going to save you if you make mistakes. If every mistake you make ends up in the net you start playing cautious and you start developing a certain negative attitude (well, I think).
When your goalie comes into camp out of shape, makes more mistakes than you can throw an octopus at I think it starts sinking the team morale fast.
I”m not saying that’s that simple, but the rumours surrounding Scott Darlings “duck all” attitude towards his responsibility, I think it deserves its spot in the list of explanations.
And Darling has been back in Raleigh for close to a month, busting his ass with the Canes strength and conditioning coach – who is a true hard-ass. Don’t think Darling didn’t take last season personally – and he has owned up to his failings, including his conditioning. If conditioning was the issue last season, it won’t be this season.
Breezy, you ever get a job before you were truly ready fo it? I don’t think anyone, not even Darling, denies he had a terrible season and much of that was on him. Where my personal disconnect is why he doesn’t deserve this summer to prove he can’t learn from that mistake and improve… Like a human does.
I agree about the goalie problem. No hockey team is any good unless they are solid in net. The Canes were no where close to solid in net last season. It does lead to players playing tight and making more mistakes which leads to more goals. A vicious cycle.
Darling isn’t owed anything but what his contract says he is owed. I don’t know where his head is, but he will get a chance to bounce back. His leash will be very short this time and he earned that with his effort and play last season.
On goaltending – Ward’s agent said today that the expectation is that Ward will be a UFA on July 1. Let that sink in. A lot of dimensions there, including the possible/probable departure of another Hurricanes legend.
Take it? Faulk? Hanifin? There will be good players available at 10.
https://nhl.nbcsports.com/2018/06/21/be-afraid-edmonton-oilers-willing-to-move-10th-pick-for-defense/
Well, the time is almost here:
Adding Svechnikov (and that is hopefully what we do) to our team should help tremendously if he lives up to his billing. Adding an elite player & a franchise face for years to come is a smile from the hockey gods.
I don’t think Hanifin or Lindy get traded as DW said they are trying to sign both of them and the team never put their names out there for trade but instead other teams had called about them. There is a difference.
*** Unless the return is something you can’t say no to & improves the team tremendously, which probably will not be offered.
I do think one of Skinny or Faulk, maybe both, will be traded to change the room & send a signal to the rest of the team that even the top players will be traded if necessary.
First we need to remedy the goalie situation. I think Was wants picks & prospects for Grubauer which is something we can afford to do. Hopefully we will.
If we trade Faulk, I hope it will be for ROR or dreaming here for Panarin (not sure CBJ will trade him right now but he would be a comfort & teacher for Svech). I think Buf may be looking to move Risto & Faulk would fill his slot perfectly so I don’t see why they wouldn’t do that with some minor details to work out.
As for Skinny being traded, we need a top 4 Dman or a top 6 scorer. Not sure which would be easier to get in free agency but we should go after both one way or another. If we just get pick(s) & prospects for Skinny then we need to flip them to get what we need.
Here’s hoping the Canes look much better in the next 10 days.
I’ve had jobs that I wasn’t ready for. The job I was least ready for I got fired after 6 months. I blame the owner of the company, he put me in a sales roll where the job description and interviews indicated it was a software development role. But I wasn’t fit for being a sales guy. I’m sure the owner blames me, and that’s fair enough, it was his company.
With other jobs I wasn’t ready for I accepted a much lower initial salary and worked hard to adjust and earn a raise. Of course I would have taken the higher salary if available, and I might have messed up big time there.
But I was not paid 4 million dollars a year for the job (not even a 40th of that) and I got fired when my performance did not match expectations.
I don’t see how this should be any different for a hockey player.
But enough with that guys, today could be a good eay! I am cautiously optimistic.
Also, go Iceland! (at the soccer world cup)
There, we absolutely agree. Happy Svech Day and go Iceland!
Part 1 didn’t go as planned. Kudos to Nigeria for playing a solid game and earning deserved 3 points, Iceland is just enjoying the ride and there is still a chance to move on up.
On mor relevant topics. Eklund claims the Sabres are moving away from Lenner and can’t find a trading partner for RoR, wonder if some sort of a deal can be made there.
Lenner could be a decent backup.
Also Detrois supposedly all in on Hannifin, curious if a trade will be announced at the podium. Still not sure what the Canes want. Detroits first round pick + rights to negotiate with Green + the Russian’s big bro would be acceptable. Brady may even be available at 6 which would delight certain posters on here, and you won’t hear me complain about it either.