I had a busy Monday, so I have not yet made it through all of the footage of media day interviews for the players. But then we unfortunately have a lot of days to fill again, so I will cover those in the days ahead.
I did finally watch Tom Dundon’s press conference. My perspective was interesting in that I managed to make it to Twitter just as it was erupting with debate, discussion and whatever else about the press conference.
My general impression from the Twitter reaction was that it was mostly an unmitigated dumpster fire. After watching it myself, I do see where that could be a reasonable partial interpretation of it, but I came away more with a feeling of uncertainty and murkiness with what lies ahead, and given that the season just ended two days ago, I think that while every team action and/or Dundon interview represents meaningful input in assessing and even just simply understanding him as an owner, I think it is premature to make final judgments on much of anything.
A late-night food analogy, and it’s not even ice cream
I feel like I just walked into a kitchen where making a pie is in process. There are apples on the table, some peels here and there, a bit of a mess of flour seemingly spilled with some even on the floor and random spices and other ingredients out on the table. If I was an expert baker, I could make some kind of assessment of the set up and organization or lack thereof and would have an impression some kind of impression of the person making the pie. But at that point, it would be premature to make a judgment on the quality of the pie to be baked.
That is about how I feel about Tom Dundon thus far. The kitchen and process seem a bit messy. That could legitimately generate some skepticism about the likelihood for success with the full process. But I think it is too early to assume and/or judge what the results will be.
Comments on the press conference
I will not so much report/rehash the press conference details. You can find the press conference HERE and also find news outlets that rehashed key points. Rather, I will pick out a few key points and offer my thoughts on their significance.
Tom Dundon front and center
The fact that the press conference did not include Bill Peters or anyone else for that matter stood out like a sore thumb. News that Dundon also conducted the player exit interviews by himself seemed even odder. (Historically, they were done by the general manager with the coach included in the meeting.) Dundon talks about building a team, hiring good people and giving the power. But that is not the current reality. Who knows where former general manager Ron Francis even is these days? The only evidence that we have that he is even in Raleigh is his picture quietly giving Cam Ward his 300-win memento on the ice before any fans had even arrived. Missing from the press conference and player exit interviews, Bill Peters seems to heading quickly in the direction of the next disappearing act. Don Waddell seems to be moving up in the world with his Interim General Manager title but was not included either on Monday. It was just Tom Dundon by himself.
Matt’s 2 cents: To be fair, the real assessment point for Dundon’s role cannot come until after he hires a new general manager, but I do not care for the early trend. At a basic level, I like the idea of thinking outside the box, but that must be balanced with incorporating experience and acquired business knowledge into the decision-making process.
On Bill Peters
Tom Dundon has not yet made a decision on retaining Bill Peters. When asked about a time table at the beginning of the press conference, he said “before next season.” Dundon later talked about Peters and everyone else fitting into the way he wants to do things.
My 2 cents: I am on record on March 14 (and sticking to that assertion) as saying that I thought Bill Peters should have been let go after the horrid loss to Boston following a couple other brutal outings. That aside, I think Dundon’s meandering lack of clarity on Peters’ situation was probably the one specific data point that concerned me most about the press conference. There is minimal if any new information to be considered in making this decision. And what is more is that there does not seem to be a time table, process or anything else established. Dundon mentioned Peters having other options and also him having other options. He said something about Peters needing to fit into how he wants to do it. I am not so much concerned with the fact that a decision was not made instantly when the season ended as I am concerned that there does not really seem to be a plan in place to make this important decision. I guess it could turn out that Dundon wanted to leave this for a new general manager, but then that might just add more uncertainty.
On the general manager situation
Much like the coaching situation, there did not seem to be a clear path in place for the general manager search. Dundon stated that Don Waddell was the interim general manager and basically said that the team had people in place run the team. Just like with the coaching situation Dundon did not offer much for specifics in terms of process and desired timeline for adding a new general manager.
Matt’s 2 cents: I am okay with whatever makes sense given current personnel to keep the business running in the interim. But the key word is interim. I shudder thinking what Waddell did to the Atlanta Thrashers, and I worry that especially if the general manager search does not heat up that the interim structure could quickly become too comfortable.
A few quotes
Dundon talked a lot about the need for improvement to a man, everything being wrong and other words that suggested that changes were on the way. “We’re not good enough.” “Needs a major shake up.” Those are two Dundon quotes that suggested changes. He also said there was “something missing in terms of engagement.” And again alluding to his way, Dundon said, “Everyone has to do it different if they want to be part of the way I do things.”
Matt’s 2 cents: This is maybe most where Canes fans are at an uncomfortable cross roads. Prior to the sale of the team, the din from Canes fans demanding change was nearly deafening. Tom Dundon came aboard and was mostly lauded for his self-described “impatience” and the changes that were bound to come. But now we are at the point where the changes are becoming reality, and those changes invariably do not match up to each fan’s hopes for exactly what would be changed. So now ironically, there suddenly seems to be resistance to change and the uncertainty the comes with it. At a basic level, changes are needed and despite the fact that there are risks and uncertainty and no guarantees for success, it beats the status quo that was not working.
Lack of empathy with the core of the fan base
Dundon was asked about attendance in general and then about the opposing fan bases invading PNC Arena. He spoke somewhat pragmatically about both. He said that winning would draw fans. He also seemed fine with opposing fans attending Canes games in bunches because of the potential that they would also become Canes fans and support the team even if it was as a second team.
Matt’s 2 cents: Conceptually, the idea of having local opposing fans in attendance being a long-term positive for building the fan base is debatable but with some merit. But bigger picture, the way he spoke about this continues to show a lack of understanding of and empathy for the core of the fan base. Enduring (and that is not a haphazardly chosen word) the games when PNC Arena is filled with opposing fans has become a hard burden for the most loyal of Canes fans. The atmosphere for many of these games is toxic. No doubt, winning and boosting attendance in total will help remedy the situation, but for Dundon to talk about these games from a pragmatic angle without acknowledging the problem that they have become shows a lack of understanding and empathy. His general lack of direct engagement with the core of the fan base continues to be puzzling. But one can imagine that just as the foundation is being shaken on the hockey operations side, that changes are inbound on the business side too now that the season is over. So again, time will tell if this situation changes as changes are made in marketing and other areas that touch the fan base.
I touched on only a handful for things that stood out to me which means we can also use this for the regular Coffee Shop discussion.
What say you Canes fans?
1) At a general level, what were your impressions of Tom Dundon and the press conference?
2) What items jumped out as most significant from what was covered (especially things not already noted above)?
Go Canes!
1) He did not seem prepared for the press conference, and even seemed surprised by some of the questions. It looked like he was flying by the seat of his pants and is not executing a plan. He seemed to know that he was unsatisfied with not making the playoffs but didn’t have a plan to get us there.
“not good enough”, “need a major shakeup”, etc, but when pressed for specifics, see (2) below.
2a) He spoke negatively about the free agent market, saying the only players available are players their team didn’t want (didn’t re-sign them) and you have to overpay for. He was positive on trading assets when each team had guys who would benefit from a change of scenery, but other than that, didn’t seem to have a plan or any specific ideas in moving forward.
2b) He didn’t support Bill Peters and didn’t fire him, but left him dangling, impotent and weak. Peters was not in the player exit interviews and not in the press interview. Is he trying to get Peters to execute his out clause? Is that a cheaper option than firing? Humiliate the guy until he quits?
To contrast, Ron Francis’ had a clear plan to build from within through the draft and was executing the plan. It occurred to me that perhaps now Dundon has a better appreciated for RF’s plan.
I couldn’t watch the whole thing as it was cringe-worthy for me, painful to watch. However, I am very interested to hear what others took away from it and desperately hope that others took away more positive conclusions.
Yeah, it’s going to be a trip with this guy running the show. A more fit, less plasticized version of Jerry Jones. The energy level will certainly increase with the new ownership, but it is likely to be half (or more) bad energy offset by the hope he’s creating a new norm for running an NHL team. We’ll see.
There were a number of quotes by Dundon and the veteran players, most specifically Ward and Williams, that alluded to a malaise within the locker room. Players with talent, but not possessing or showing enough displeasure with losing. Other quotes referenced not tough enough to play against, an easy game for opponents – especially here in Raleigh. Who in here didn’t see those things all season long, but especially when the season went south toward the end? There was something missing, something in the makeup of this particular group that just didn’t exist. I called it passion a number of times. A gut wrenching, passion to not lose. The comments yesterday just confirmed our suspicions, that this lack of passion was felt within the locker room and the coach and veterans couldn’t change it enough to have any demonstrable effect. I believe we’re going to see at least a couple to three players traded, and more than likely those are the guys that were coming up short when the sledding got rough. Sometimes those guys can’t be changed, they are what they are. If I had to guess, it could be any of Rask, Lindholm, Skinner or Faulk moved, with a few others replaced with younger, and hopefully more talented players, from Charlotte. There is no doubt in my mind Williams will be the captain next season. A statement has to be made that times are a changing, and removing the passivity from the leadership is one component of a new beginning. So frustrating to understand, after it is too late to do anything about it, that actually caring about winning or losing defined this squad. Some blame also has to be laid at Peter’s feet and in my opinion, you can’t bring back a coach who wasn’t able to get buy in by his players. He’s a good coach, but he needs a new start somewhere else.
My initial impressions of him were that he was saying the right things, for the most part. But watching the interview again, Matt is right. He seems to be completely taking over the show without a plan or direction. He can’t make a definitive statement about anything right now and doesn’t seem to have a plan.
As a new owner, maybe he gets some time to get acclimated to the process. He definitely bought himself a fixer upper team (with potential), but he should have the draft of a plan for turning that team around and he does not seem to have one.
If his plan is to promote Don Wandell to GM and have the canes Thrasher their way to Canada or the northwest I am not onboard.
Ugh…this guy is hard to watch. Yes, he may put it together and have a good team, but the early returns are bad. Who in the world would want to work for this guy? He appears to have a huge ego and be all about himself. It’s one thing to create a financial model to maximize profits from high interest car loans, but it’s another to gather the pieces necessary to create a winning hockey franchise when you are starting with a small market and a bad reputation. So far, he is digging a hole. Hope he can climb out.
The team right now has too much in common with Atlanta. Many losing seasons, poor fan support, and questionable management. Thankfully they have a good arena deal they don’t have to share with an NBA team.
I was tempted not to comment at all. Regulars will know I was not surprised that yesterday was not a display of competence and innovation.
Speaking of innovation–one thing I am reading here and from commenters at other sites is the need for new captaincy. While I agree that Williams is the one skater saying the right things and who seems to understand the need to push some buttons, he also specifically called out a teammate for his positive role. Many folks are saying things need to be different and need to be shaken up. Well, why not Williams and Ward. It is doubly unconventional to have co-captains and to have a goalie as a captain. But I don’t think there are any NHL rules that prohibit it. It seems obvious that those are the two players who ALL other teammates listen to when they need motivation.
I realize this is not going to happen officially. But I think in many ways Williams and Ward (he really needs to be re-signed for two more years) are already filling the vacuum that Dundon seems to be (unintentionally) creating.
In regards to player changes, I think moving Lindholm would be a mistake. He, Aho, and Necas are the centers this team has needed. Sure they will all be inexperienced next season, but as Matt has mentioned numerous times the NHL is a young man’s league. I am not as certain about moving Rask–though my preference would be to create a line of Rask/Lindholm/Williams. Rask and Lindholm had chemistry at last year’s World Championship.
As I have written before I think Staal fits really well with youngsters to create a high-energy disruption line. Foegele/Staal/McGinn would be my first option for that line next season.
Given that I believe the TAZ line is the real deal, that only leaves one line. Necas needs to be given every chance to start as a center. He needs a solid winger who can score and play defense. I return to the idea of trading Skinner (and a prospect if necessary, or maybe even Rask) to Montreal for Pacioretty. I know it is easy to write this and the reality may be all the parties (players and management) would not buy in. But I think the new GM needs to consider this the top priority. There may be other players who could serve the same role, but I can’t think of any who would have more benefits to a young center than Pacioretty.
If Pacioretty or a similar LW can be acquired for Skinner, then I actually favor re-signing Ryan. He would be a strong complementary RW who could take key face-offs and take some of the pressure off Necas.
Now this is all just me sitting on my couch spouting off ideas that may be impossible. However, I think someone within the organization needs to be doing more than saying “things need to change,” or “we need to be tougher.” As much as RF has been maligned, he thought out what he was doing. Action is needed–but well thought out action is what will finally get the Canes into the playoffs.
I’m in the minority here. I loved the press conference. Let’s remember, this was a season-ending press conference, not a draft day or free agent mid-summer presser detailing specifics and designs. Let’s also remember this team has not made the playoffs in 9 years. Everything about the status quo has not worked. We’ve had 8 season-ending pressers before this hearing we’re just a few pieces away, had some touch breaks, etc. etc…
I have been a fan of this franchise long before it was in Raleigh, and there are plenty of other cities vying for a franchise. We have an owner that wants to make it work in Raleigh. He has a certain way of operating that has been successful (whether we agree with his prior business or methods) the guy has been a winner. He knows how to manage people and not get caught up in the “good old boys” club. Isn’t that what we’ve been wanting since 2006? We cannot be picky about how things are said at this point. We all need to accept change is inevitable and rightfully coming. Again, we haven’t made the playoffs since 2009!
As for the presser, this wasn’t about setting specifics. This was about setting expectations for 2018-19. Who we trade and how many will soon be answered. The season-end was just two days old and some people (like BP) are making decisions whether to be part of this process or not. BP didn’t have the right players, which was not BP’s fault, so I’m sure TD and BP are deciding whether they can make a serious GO at this with a newly designed roster. If not, we hire a new coach. Same goes for GM…do we really need a top line GM or can someone inside such as Waddell fill the role?
I’m fine with Waddell and Peters for a year with a newly built roster. IMO, the important changes will be on the roster itself. As TD stated, it’s managements job to find better replacements and the players job to make that difficult. The players have NOT made that difficult. He also said it gets easier to decide the further down the list you go. Changes of scenery will happen. We will make several trades, likely involving Faulk, Skinner and a few others. We will have more grit and better balance come Fall. And gone will be the days of picking up middling free agents who pot us 5 goals a season only to have the same presser next year. I’m happy Dundon is in place and excited for the offseason ahead. Let the man do his job.
I would not call it winning when you pay millions of dollars in fines. Sure you may have gamed the system, but taking advantage of people (especially people SERVING our country) is a very strange definition of winning. If your only standard is making money, then he won. By that standard, Karmanos won by making a tidy sum on his investment even with moving the team and not making the playoffs for nine years . So now we have two owners who are winners.
Personally, I think keeping Bill Peters out of the exit interviews was a smart move by Dundon. It enables him to get a real, uncensored opinion of BP by the players. I think this is a very important move by him to determine if there is friction between the players vs coaches. This allows a logical assessment on who might need to be traded to improve the locker room and if BP is really the right man for THIS group of players.
Think about it, you’re at work doing yearly reviews and the GM asks you about your manager who is IN THE ROOM, odds are you’re not going to give an honest answer. I think this is exactly what Dundon was going for and I respect him for trying to really understand the problem, rather than just do things the same way because “this is how it’s always been done.”
I thought the same thing about the exit interviews. I always assumed they were done completely by the coach. No GM and definitely no owner involved. A chance to have a heart to heart between player and coach about what went right and wrong with the season. Set expectations regarding off-season training and growth, and get honest, confidential feedback from the players without worrying about repercussions from teammates. I wonder what is the norm throughout the league for these meetings?
1. General Level: I found nothing to be overly concerned about in the press conference. It was more of a courtesy to the media and not intended to be a big news day event IMO. This owner is just taking his time while he has it to gather information before proceeding with what in any other franchise would be making major decisions.
2. The significant topics:
a. Bill Peters status: It is my understanding that Bill Peters has a year remaining on his contract. It is also my understanding that Peters has an option under the contract to not stay for the additional year. If this is the case then I can understand why TD cannot and will not say what he is going to do with Peters. Let’s say he wants to fire Peters. If he did so right now he would have to pay Peters for the final year of the contract and Peters could go elsewhere at his leisure. Let’s say Peters intends to opt out of his final year which is totally up to him. If TD waits for Peter’s decision he can make any desired coaching change without paying Peters for the final year on his contract if Peters opts out himself. Right now the ball is entirely in Peters hands and until he makes his decision on whether to opt out or not, TD is not in control.
From this I can determine with fairly good accuracy the following:
a. Whoever agreed to a contract such as Peters has (Francis and/or Waddell) was incompetent if the opt out clause was left entirely up to Peters and there was no reciprocal opt out clause for the team. This would mean Peters could run the team for four years and hopefully build a winning record on a free pass. Then having built his resume Peters could capitalize on that free pass four years (low expectations because after all he was in a rebuild situation)to go out and get him a job at another franchise at more money. If Peter’s contract did not provide such a one-way deal, then TD and the team would have some control.
So, my take from the press conference was the press failed to follow up on just what the terms of Peter’s contract are. Knowing this is crucial to understanding what questions need to be asked of TD with the expectation of any real new information.
About the new GM or no new GM: What I got out of the conference was TD still hasn’t come across a new suggested candidate that is both available right now and who has such a wonderful resume that he has just knocked TD’s socks off and who TD feels would be a step up from what we have in house (Waddell, Francis, Velluchi, etc.). Until TD does I am content to move on and not adopt an “the sky is falling” attitude over this. Listen, we are at the bottom right now IMO. We got there without TD. He was not the problem. I am not going to start off now worrying about ghosts and problems manufactured by trembling fans or press. I’ve done all my trembling for this team. I have my season tickets as usual (20 years worth), and I’m going to let this new owner have a chance to do good things without the help of my expert second guessing of everything he does.
The rest of the conference was just generalities and random thoughts on TD’s philosophy on various topics. The press (media) was unfocused on what they wanted and could reasonably expect from this conference. Thus the press (media)let me down as far as I am concerned.
I love the discussions on this site! I can totally move to one viewpoint and then back to another as I see more thoughts.
I think I can reconcile my initial impressions with the concerns. I think this guy doesn’t have a plan, but he doesn’t need one yet, though he needs to develop one soon. It’s too early to judge him.
He is a bit too hands on, which dcould be a problem, but then again he is invested, he seems to care about setting up a winning product, and that is a refreshing change from years and years of an owner that really seemed to want to opt out more than anything. There’s no guarantee this is a good change, though we hope so, but it’s not a guarantee it is a disastrous change either.
I think one of the Canes problems was to hire GMs that are too close to the players. RF, in particular, is friends with many of the older guys, nothing wrong with that, but it makes it harder for him to set their needs aside for the needs of the team. I think a good gM from outside the team and the market could assess the situation free from personal connections with the players.
I like the idea of Ward being resigned for a couple of years and given the C. AS a backup goalie he might actually have a lot more time for Captain duties, watching games, talking to players, working in the trenches. I’m still for JW primarily, but I would actually not have a problem with Ward stepping in, though last time a goalie was named captain (Luongo) it didn’t go so well.
breezy, I like your comments here and would only differ on the goalie as a captain.
ct…respectfully agree to disagree. The team is where it is NOT because of Dundon. Now fans and media are whining about petty, irrelevant details. Many of us can be armchair GMs and try to make sense of the status quo by sounding smart and re-watching videos, throwing out statistics/charts on past and present etc…and while that creates fodder that doesn’t change anything in reality. Nothing can justify this team’s failure for so long, and the folks who disagree focus on the new owner’s past operations against a broken status quo in lending (as if he stole from the poor). Fact – it takes two to tango in any deal between business and customer. But I digress and prefer to stay on the hockey theme. The team on the ice just finished 10th in the East, AGAIN. A smart businessman will change that trajectory. If the team is to truly prosper in Raleigh then we need an owner who fights through the status quo, and many will need to get over his past.
Good comments and I agree with you.
Not to stray too far from the topic, but I think you’d be awfully hard pressed to find millionaires who earned every cent of their money through honesty and hard work.
How Tom made his money is not my concern, it’s how he is going to use his money to build a winning product in Carolina that matters, for this team anyway.
So I try not to mix opinions about Tom’s other business practices (past or present) with what he brings to this team.
I have very mixed feelings on this. I was not thrilled by a lot of what he said – you can dispense with any thought he was not going to be a hands-on, details-focussed manager of an owner.
Given the level of change we can expect in the next 5 months, I have no issue with him meeting the players individually. Hopefully it was great for his hockey IQ, and it builds on a personal connection between the owner and the players on something more than a cocktail party or contract signing basis.
The GM process will be the big tell for me – will any “hockey guy” want to work with him? I don’t know if you saw the smirk on his face when someone asked him about the alleged $300K salary for the GM during the interview process last month. He is going to need someone other than your typical GM or asst. GM who has been brought up in the system to effectively function in that role. Until then it will be TD and the Committee of 4 – and we have yet to see any real decision-making from this group.
So it could be heaven, or it could be hell.
As for Peters, RR suggests that there should be a team opt-out as well as a coach opt-out. Generally that is not the way these contracts work – if the team can opt out there is no meaning to the term of the contract. I don’t see Peters stepping into a HC job anywhere right away, but I don’t know if his future is with the Canes either. He has a nice gig for the summer that he can step into and focus on – hopefully that will give him some clarity. And I have to think that given the history of communication between Peters and Dundon they already know what is going on and Dundon wasn’t about to show his hand.
raleightj, many contracts contain a clause to allow a team to opt out after a period of time. My concern with our contract with BP is that we gave him the ability to opt out. Nevertheless, it is what it is and my point is we won’t know anything until BP makes his decision to stay or not to stay. Only then can TD know for sure what he is dealing with and what his course of action will be unless he wants to dump BP before BP makes his decision and then have to pay for BP’s last year.
I’m a little taken aback by the STH and fan reaction to the presser, I give props to TD doing the exit interviews and presser solo. What I got out of it was no one but Aho is safe and I agree with that. At the end of the day hockey is a business and if local fans don’t buy up the tickets then you are going to have opposing team players in the building. Winning fixes that as does a more positive message from the organization.
I stopped being a STH when I moved away to Nebraska thought I did stay a year and donated those tickets to Hockey Fights Cancer. Since moving back I am just not inclined to spend that kind of money again. The ticket reps they had and I respected (the ones that always looked out for STH’ers) are no longer there. The have been replaced by what I would classify as college interns.
Of the away games I have attended I would have to rate PNC Arena as the worst fan experience of them all (and yes I have been to Philly). Concession stands in other arena’s give you “the flavors of the area”. We get a blob of pork fat called “BBQ Nacho’s”. The quality isn’t there, so like most I don’t spend my money inside.
Ok, off my soapbox and back in the corner.
You’ve been to Philly and think it’s bad? It is awesome! Great sight lines, passionate fans and good variety of food to eat. You should have seen what they were giving away for Fan Appreciation Night. I would go to a game in Philly in a heartbeat. No, you shouldn’t wear your opposing team gear, but that is a small price to pay for what a hockey game should feel like.
lessthan–I agree and will one up you. My son and I went to a Flyers/Canes game in Oct. 2016 both with our jerseys and hats on. The folks around us could not have been more pleasant. The sight lines were good. Don’t know about the food because my son demanded that we get a cheesesteak from Pat’s, which he said was the best sandwich ever. I abstained. But a good place to go for a game. If there is a Saturday game in 18-19, we will be back.
I was raised and lived all of my adult years up until 2010 halfway between Hershey and Philadelphia, and was lucky enough to have attended probably hundreds of hockey games in those cities plus Reading (ECHL). The whole idea of going to a Philly game and risking your life if you have on an opposing jersey is nonsense but makes for a good story for the press. What you do need is a sense of humor and some comeback lines and you’re home free. Forget the cheesesteaks, get crab fries from Chicky and Petes. The best.
I gotta step in here, and defend the pork nachos. I love them as a perfect mix of cheap arena food, a tiny bit of local and just good even if not fancy by any stretch of the imagination.
And I will die on this hill. Come at me. 🙂
For real, who is bashing the pork nachos? That is the most clutch concession in the arena IMHO.
I am with ct as to the business acumen and professional integrity of the new owner.
The guy “won” by making his customers lose. That was his business model.
And he made his billion not by running his business but by selling his business.
That was then (a year or two ago) and this is now – does his past business practices reflect what we can see from him going forward? Time will tell, and he has that time. But that weakens my respect for him considerably from what it was when I first heard about him.
raleightj, if the Canes win the Cup next year, I bet you will come down off your ivory tower and not be so concerned with what TD did a few years ago and really doesn’t relate to hockey. Let’s concern ourselves with the here and now since we have a hockey team to rebuild and I’m not too concerned that TD will somehow scam me. I’m capable of looking after me and will buy my tickets as I see fit and enjoy reading yours and others comments about hockey as I am sure you can do. If I am going to worry about slimy operations all I have to do is turn off the hockey channels and sites and go over to the political media sites. There I can wade in dirt at my leisure if I so desire. I don’t need this site then.
RR – you don’t know me. First, I don’t live in an ivory tower. I bust my ass every single fucking day. And I value integrity and morals more than winning a hockey game. It is the way I am. I have cheered this team for years, and through the worse years even. The only time I have stopped cheering is when the boys on the ice have given up. I don’t want people praising Dundon for his business acumen and smarts when his business acumen was all about screwing over the little guy. I cheer for the team not the owner.
tj–well said.
Thank you, ct.
WE can have a brainstorming discussion on what local restaurants/foods should be represented at Canes games next season, I can think of a few #Chicken #Waffles
Hey Breezy…Great idea…And fits perfectly with our growing food trend here, and we spend at 6-figure marketing budget this summer rebranding to Canes and Coffee and Ice Cream.
If I do not remember myself in the next week or 2, please remind me. We can include an off-ice topic to go with the usual hockey stuff to keep things interesting and help fill another long offseason.
Will do!
This has been one of the most interesting and revealing couple of days in my history of being a Canes fan. Tom’s press conference was very exciting to me. These are my reasons:
1) Tom made it known that he is not going to state his position on whether he wants Bill to stay or to go. He did make it clear that nobody is immune from his condemnation of the Canes’ poor performance this past season; not even Tom, himself. Why should he reveal more? By doing so he would most certainly be limiting his options.
2) Tom is a classy guy. While he said repeatedly that nobody did right, he did not single out any member of the team or management for any specific failure. Management 101 – criticize privately, praise publicly.
3) He declared the team’s new dedication; winning. Simple, but not simplistic.
4) He stated, more than once, the major shortcoming crippling the team is a lack of “toughness”. This, coming from a guy who makes no claim to knowledge of the game. I stood up and cheered.
5) He did not state it specifically, but by his words and attitude made it clear that the Canes will succeed or fail as a team.
I am not aware of Tom’s history as a businessman. I don’t much care about that. I can look to Viola in Florida, Melnick in Ottawa and Mr. K here for examples of bad owners.
Each time I hear from this guy, I like him a little more. While I cannot claim to see the future, I can say with reasonable certainty that this will be the most interesting off-season in my memory.
This very closely echoes my feelings. I’m certainly more optimistic than anything at this point. One of my favorite things he said in regards to personnel is “it’s our (management) job to find better players than you, it’s your job to make it hard.” It doesn’t get much clearer than that.
Obviously there needs to be a plan and steps to get there; I doubt that TD has zero idea about specifics but I’m not surprised he didn’t discuss them yesterday.
powerless, I agree with your thoughts.
It makes perfect sense that TD did the exit interviews. It’s not appropriate for a coach with an “out” clause in his contract to be involved since he may elect to leave for to coach a competing team. Nor does it make sense for an interim GM to be involved since he will likely have a different role soon enough. As far as RF goes, he assembled the current roster and is accountable for the Canes being a “soft” team.
The new GM will provide an alternative approach from what currently exists within the organization; he will also need to be an experienced and astute deal-maker since several trades are likely.
An interesting comment by TD alluded to the fact that he wasn’t sure what they were “selling”. To me this refers to the clear lack of identity the current team has. I take comfort in knowing that next season’s team will be much tougher with a healthy dose of “snarl”. If you read between the lines of TD’s press conference, it is apparent that he is very disappointed with with us being an easy team to play against, especially at home. Music to my ears.
Absolute perfect sense and reasoning! It’s a ‘bull by the horns’ approach to gather data, yet subtle. Unlike years past TD is not selling us on tweaks and what we could be…he’s telling us on what we will be by doing things his way. Music to my ears as well.
I’ve read all the comments above, and everyone of you have reasonable opinions and reasoned thoughts on how things are going and what you expect to happen. Even if I disagree with anything someone has written, I respect your ideas and your willingness to say what you feel. If you became concerned with any of my thoughts just remember, no one ever identified me as any Nostradamus of hockey or hockey management.
This site is my favorite Canes resource. Lots of great thoughts and opinions; and the rarest of all things on the internet, rational and civil discussions. Hats off to Matt for building a great community. Go Canes!
The civil debate with differing opinions really is special on today’s internet, and the credit for that goes to the regular contributors and the growing community at Canes and Coffee. Hats off to all of you!
I’m with you, RR!
I am not a fan of the toughness comment. Though because TD cited Aho as a tough player I think it was an imprecise word choice. So it could be ok.
But the traditional sense of toughness is actually a detriment to the way hockey is evolving. I don’t mean players shouldn’t fight to control the front of the net–they should. But what will certainly surprise most commenters here (I hope TD has seen this) is that Carolina is way better than most teams at getting shots in front of the net https://hockeyviz.com/team/CAR/1718
Once you follow the link compare the Canes’ graph to high-scoring teams like Winnipeg, Tampa, and Philadelphia. Those teams get more shots from the blue line and the circles. So maybe “toughness” is not what is needed.
I am not sure TD knows about Ryan Stimson’s work that analyzes the types of passing plays that lead to increased scoring. Maybe he does. But one thing that the analysis never supports is being tougher. It is about skill and playing strategically. The three teams mentioned above have some players who battle and demonstrate that they hate to lose, but what they have most is skill and a system that allows them to highlight that skill.
I will finish by reminding everyone why the Greatest (not the great one) rose to the top of the sport most identified with toughness. Sure Ali could take a punch. But it was understanding that rope-a-dope was tactically smart–not just convincing his opponent that he was tough–that made him better than everyone else. Even in hockey being quicker and smarter beats being tougher.
Hockey isn’t all skill. To be successful at all, but most importantly in the playoffs, it requires a toughness. Toughness in the way you play so your opponents have to work hard when playing against you, toughness for sacrificing your body over and over to block shots and move bodies, toughness to bodycheck and impart your will on the opposition and mental toughness to overcome obstacles when things aren’t going your way. Kind of the things we didn’t see this season from a fairly large number of Canes.
Amen, brother. Toughness also includes being willing to agitate and distract hostile attention from the smaller scorers to yourself.
ten. I heard over and over this season that the Canes weren’t “willing” to go to the front of the net. That was proof that they didn’t have mental toughness to overcome obstacles. Yet the link above (I hope folks follow it and look at the high-scoring teams as well) clearly shows that Carolina produced a good deal more shots in front of the net than most other teams.
“Thinking Fast and Slow” does a great job of explaining how we see what we already believe. Unfortunately, it often isn’t backed up by data. It is true that the Canes didn’t have as many checks or hits. But there is no statistical correlation between hits and wins. So unless your will is to lose to teams with better talent and/or tactics, there is no imposition.
The data indicate that getting to the net was much less a problem for Carolina than for Tampa or Winnipeg. I totally agree that the team needs more of something–but when they get it I want them to win more games.
I owe everyone a mea culpa. I think I am the biggest hockeyviz fan among the regulars. Well, at the beginning of this season the proprietor of that website created a very complex tool to measure goalie performance–it clearly indicated that moving from Lack to Darling would not create improvement. I just didn’t believe that because Darling had such better obvious numbers: save percentage and GAA. I have learned my lesson. If data suggest something we all (and I include myself) believe might be mistaken, I will share it.
One more time consider Ali. I don’t think anyone ever thought he was physically of mentally tougher than Liston, or Frazier, or Foreman, or Norton. He was simply quicker (both with his hands and his wits) and used that to impose his will. Wouldn’t we all want to see Carolina have his success?
Toughness applies to a lot of things. It is finishing your checks. It is taking a hit to move a puck. It is taking the abuse in front of the net and not just stepping aside. It’s backchecking when you are tired and would rather float and hope you get the puck. It is not falling apart mentally and losing the gameplan when things get tough.
The Canes do need toughness, but not exclusively the physical part. I do believe the Canes have too many perimeter forwards. Players that wont or can’t get to the slot for quality chances. Just a little look at Foegele shows how a guy with size, some skill, and a big motor can wreck havok below the dots. The Canes sorely lack that kind of player.
For what it’s worth. I am recuperating from surgery at home. I love movies almost as much as I love pro sports. One of my favorite movies about pro football is “Draft Day”. I recommend it highly to all Canes fans. You can’t beat it for the plausible scenarios of the behind the scenes machinations of a pro team’s front office on draft day.
Another good football flick is the film Gleason. Documentary about Steve Gleason the Saints player who came down with ALS. They started filming him right after he became a Super Bowl hero when he was originally diagnosed with the disease, then filmed his descent and courageous battle over the next five years. Heart wrenching and powerful. Recommend it to anyone, sports fan or not. He’s actually not doing too good right now and New Orleans will lose one of their real heroes when he passes.
Oh! And I find myself waiting for the playoffs to begin watching this movie. This movie is one I will spend a lot of Lay Z Boy time watching over the next few weeks while I recover.
I think yesterday’s seeming collection of dumpster fires is largely the product of the last 9 years, not of the new owner’s behavior or actions, his only action so far being to fire RF, something he even admitted might have been a mistake.
People have a lot of concerns, probably valid, about his business practices or hands on approach and all that, but the optimist in me is actually happy to give him a chance to try his approach on a situation that honestly could not get much worse without reaching the historic proportions (the Canes are approaching the longest playoff drout in hockey history, 95% of which happened before TD bought the team).
I don’t necessarily agree with his UFA comments. There are reasons other than a players performance that force teams to let them walk. Maybe the player is no longer a fit, maybe he doesn’t like the city, maybe the team has salary cap issues, a smart owner or GM must separate those situations from the general “UFAs are bad” and aggressively pursue the right fit if one presents itself.
I don’t see rejecting a reasonable deal for JVR or even an expensive deal for Tavares if they presented themselves.
I understand his non committal approach to BP, though I suspect BP is on his way out, else he would have been more involved in the press conference.
His first challenge is to find a talented GM candidate and pay that person a reasonable salary. He said that if he found the right guy he would pay to get him, which probably any business guy would say, but it makes sense.
First, I love that there are 44 comments here and that there is active debate.
Second, I’m not going to question any player’s commitment to winning, but it’s clear to me that there is a wide spectrum between different player’s reaction to losing – more than anything, I think this gap needs to close, and it needs to move more in the direction of how JW and CW feel.
Third, TD has no incentive to share anything about his thought process regarding the direction of the team. He has to let BP decide on his option. He has to wait for other GM candidates who belong to playoff teams get through the playoffs. Etc., etc. He does, however, have an incentive to communicate his complete and utter disdain for losing and a losing attitude and prepare everyone for the change that’s coming, which is what came across loud and clear to me. Winning is hard, and holding folks accountable for it is exactly the “jolt” this organization needs, especially after this year when everyone around the team felt so much optimism entering the season.
Fourth, it’s clear that personnel will change. It’s also clear it ought to change. Everyone is always uncomfortable with change, especially those who don’t control it – just ask employees in any company going through a re-org – but the status quo hasn’t worked. I think a lot of the general discomfort is knowing that change is coming but not knowing anything about how it’s going to happen.
Fifth, I was an optimist entering this season. I believed we’d take a step forward and we didn’t. I spent an enormous amount of emotional energy on this team and find myself completely deflated. I’m almost uninterested in watching the playoffs (but I’m sure I will). So now I welcome change. I’ve enjoyed watching many of our players and will miss them if they are not on the team next year. But I’m ready for change. I prefer turnover to more of the same.
Sixth, TD essentially prepared us not to be surprised by anything. If he’s smart, he’d sell high on Staal, TT, Slavin, or Pesce – no one would expect that but the return would be fantastic. I think everyone expects Faulk, Skinner, and Rask to be shopped which limits their return. There is no reason not to listen to any other offer. I just hope we wind up with Hall and not Larsson, or Subban and not Weber. These things can go either way.
Seventh, whether BP stays or goes, there are probably going to be other coaching changes. If TD is willing to move GMRF, RB’A could also be “promoted.”
I hate to say it this way, but this off-season may be more fun that this past regular season.
Great thoughts as always, but I am MASSIVELY disappointed that you went 7 thoughts deep and did not step in to defend BBQ Nachos at PNC Arena.
Will Cory and I have to fight this battle alone? Who’s with us?
Living in CLT, I’m not in PNC often, but when I am, I’ve visited the overpriced and under-flavored prime-rib sandwich station and have come away disappointed but full. I have no opinion on the nachos. Sorry.
I live even farther than dmiller AND I am a vegetarian. So no support for the pork or the prime-rib. Though I will say if Simon’s Hot Dogs gets a concession for the Coyotes the debate for best arena food is over. Though an oxymoron–the vegan Colombian is the best hot dog on the planet (my son and wife would say the real Colombian is the best). Seriously if you ever go to Phoenix, you must venture over to Scottsdale and eat lunch at Simon’s. I promise you it is unlike any hot dog ever.
Great comments by all! I feel a little better about the press conference after reading all of these comments.
I am with Matt on the BBQ Nachos, it has a shabby chic appeal. Although I get the BBQ sandwich, roast beef sandwich or Italian sausage at least as often. Hey this making me hungry…