Today’s Daily Cup of Joe offers a collection of short discussions with a ‘one or the other’ theme.
1) Justin Faulk or Noah Hanifin
One of Faulk or Hanifin needs to find a higher gear defensively such that he can anchor a second defense pairing that improves from the past two years. Jaccob Slavin and Brett Pesce tend to be better together, but probably rightfully, Peters had to split them on the road to balance the defense pairings. Faulk was a sound top four defenseman defensively awhile back when playing with Ondrej Sekera, but that has not been the case the past couple years. Noah Hanifin is suddenly entering his fourth season in the NHL. If he is going to put it all together and become a legitimate top 4 defenseman, the time is now. If one of Hanifin or Faulk does not take a step up the Hurricanes will have a hard time icing a solid second pairing.
2) Cam Ward or Scott Darling
Indications from 1400 Edwards Mill Road are that the team could go with three goalies in 2018-19. That could enable the Hurricanes to re-sign Cam Ward and add a third potential starter to the mix. While I guess carrying three goalies could work, a more direct approach would be keeping only one of Ward and Darling. The predicament is that Darling and the $12.3 million still owed on his current contract are virtually untradeable. And though Ward performed well as a backup in 2017-18, if the Hurricanes stick to two goalie slots and keep Darling, better would be to use the currently open slot to add a potential starter.
3) Derek Ryan or Joakim Nordstrom
With the addition of Jordan Martinook who can fill a fourth line role and importantly kill penalties and the need to leave room for rookies to rise up, my thinking is that the team could have room for one of Joakim Nordstrom or Derek Ryan as a depth forward but probably not both. Both are impending free agents, so my best guess is that the team allows one of the two to depart. Simply because I expect the team to go in a different direction at the center position and because Derek Ryan will garner a higher salary, my best guess is that the team does re-sign Nordstrom for veteran depth but parts ways with Ryan this summer.
4) Jeff Skinner or Justin Faulk
If the team is truly going to shake things up in terms of chemistry, lineup, locker room and leadership, best guess is that one of Jeff Skinner or Justin Faulk could be the veteran to go. Both players have contracts that expire soon, and both have been aboard for almost all of the long run of playoff misses. I put the odds as fairly high that one Skinner or Faulk is gone by October. But then After threatening to think outside the box, the revamping of the management and coaching staff more or less ended up being a reshuffling of existing personnel which suggests a minor reshuffling of a few depth players instead is not out of the question.
What say you Canes fans?
1) Which of these either/or choices do you believe will be made this summer?
2) For each of the four scenarios, what would be your choice?
3) Who has other either/or choices for the Hurricanes’ offseason?
Go Canes!
I wouldn’t mind seeing all of the above-mentioned players being dealt or unsigned. Faulk and Hanifin have not been top 4D and if one or both get dealt for help in all areas so be it (no preference which as long as one gets dealt for a boost). Skinner is one-dimensional (he can score but his defense nets a virtual negative). Ryan is a BP product and will seek a higher paycheck so he can go to free agency. Nordy can kill penalties but doesn’t put up points, whereas Foegle and some of the young kids can do the same plus score a little. I’d prefer none of the goalies return and we instead try to land a proven starter via trade. Change is desperately needed and we shouldn’t get sucked into bringing back what hasn’t clicked.
I would keep Ryan over Nordstrom. At least Ryan can scores (albeit in a weird distrubution over the season).
I am sure that one of Hannifin or Faulk will be dealt, possibly both. The question is that of fit and price.
I fin a 3 goalie solution simply stupid (pardon my French). Ward is a free agent, he does not have to be resigned, Darling has a terrible contract that the Canes are stuck with.
I see no reason for resigning Ward as a goalie, by all means give him another position with the team or something, but don’t bring back a goalie that has been average or worse in the last decade, even if he is a fantastic human being. He is a UFA, why does the team feel they owe him a slot? He’s been paid close to 50 million dollars in his Carolina time. He has been a good soldier and the team has rewarded him handsomely and there is no reason to continue to do so.
Use the slot for a 1B goalie type who sees an opportunity in Carolina (hopefully we can find one) or trade darling’s contract back to the Blackhawks for taking on Hossa’s cap hit, then sign a 1 goalie and let our AHL goalies battle it out for the backup.
This position needs nothing short of a reset.
I don’t see a Skinner vs. Faulk situation here, different players, different strengths, though perception of their last season is similar.
I think Skinner’s goal scoring ability should not be discarded for tacos, not even Laco tacos at gona. Put him on a line with defensively responsible center and a power forward and let him do his thing.
I know I have said different earlier but I have changed my mind after reading all the different viewpoints on this site. Actually, I’ve always said the team should trade him at the playoff deadline unless the team is in the layoff hunt. I thin returns are similar, possibly even better.
Ryan is a great guy that deserves a shot where his skillset is a good match. I am actually thinking the Penguins who need a 4th line center upgrade, Riley has not worked out for them.
With the whole host of upcoming players I think the Canes are not a good fit for the Dr. though I won’t be too concerned if he is resigned. I’d rather resign Nordstrom and have him spend 3 weks in a shot clinic. If he can up his rate from the 0.00001% to even 1 or 2 he could have 20 goals, He’s got all the tttributes of a great #13 forward.
(ok, I am a math guy, I know what I said indicats he could have tens of thousands of goals actually 😉 but math be damned, I haven’t even had coffee yet)
1. Faulk or Hanifin
Keep Hanifin
2. Ward or Darling
Neither
3. Ryan or Nordstrom
A BIG NEITHER
4. Skinner or Faulk
Keep Skinner, again you deal from your strength, we have the depth in D to move a guy out and make a deal.
1. I think the Hanifin versus Faulk debate is really interesting. I still really like the booming shot of Faulk on the PP and think if he’s back we’ll see his goal total be closer to 15. Without Faulk, there’s almost no big slapshot from the blueline for the team. But Hanifin is only 21(!) and I think he’s going to continue to grow and improve. He continues to look really good with puck on his stick. I think one of them should go and one should stay. Trade whoever can return a player who fills a critical need (center or goalie).
2. Ward was by far better than Darling, who was statistically and otherwise the worst starting NHL goalie. It’s also been widely reported that Darling was significantly out of shape when he arrived last year. I’m not sure how the team or coaches can have any faith in Darling. Best plan for me would be let him find his game in Charlotte and let Ward backup a new starter. But that’s an expensive plan and I doubt Dundon will endorse it. If Ward is not back, then I’d want to see if Ned could be the backup to a new starter.
3. Neither. Nordstrom has been replaced by Martinook and we could sign a better depth UFA forward if needed. If Rask could be traded, I’d be for bringing back Ryan on 4th line. We have to leave spots open for talented rookies (Zykov, Foegle, Necas, Svechnikov).
4. Whoever brings team a top-6 center or goalie. If I had to choose, I’d let Skinner go because while he’s gifted offensively, his style doesn’t raise the play of his linemates, doesn’t translate to overtime or shootout success, and is a defensive liability. We should keep them both if other teams only want to give us draft picks and prospects.
I think live_free may be on to something: it wouldn’t surprise me if none of those players were back next year, especially if there is a trade opportunity for Darling (like for Hossa’s cap space) that makes sense.
The value for Skinner, Faulk, and Hanifin is very high – many have probably read the rumors of something brewing with VAN where it’d be Hanifin for #7 pick + young roster player. How would people feel about Hanifin for Horvat even up? Skinner + 3rd/4th for Toffoli + Jake Muzzin? Just having a little fun here.
I think the main thing people who want to keep Skinner forget is that he’s an UFA next summer and you have to factor in the odds that he walks away and the team receives no compensation in return – even if we want to extend him, which we may not want to do.
There are going to be ways to reshape the roster, but we saw what happened to SLT as the deadline last season – they were able to make one trade (Stasny) but the backfill trade fell through. That’s the real risk in all this: being able to make all the trades and not just some of them.
I like the Skinner trade dmiller. I think it makes sense for both sides and if we move him I’d much rather see him lighting the lamp in the west.
I go back and forth on Hanifin. I think we really need to get great value (pieces we can plug into the roster now, not just futures) to move him or it will bite us in the ass down the road. We do need more defensive acumen in our second pairing though; would love to not have to split up Slavin and Pesce.
Skinner has less value in a trade now because he only has 1 yr left before free agency. No team is giving up a lot for what could be a 1 yr rental. We really need a player-for-player trade but teams likely want to add Skinner without subtracting from current roster talent. I think what most teams will offer is similar to trade deadline deals, a pick and a prospect.
darth your logic is sound, but it’s also not 100% accurate. Yes Skinner has less value with low contract. That said, this is exactly where the agents come into play
Remember Chicago got a third round pick simply for negotiating rights for Darling, and if we traded Skinner, the team would get a year of him already, moreso if they work with his agent to find out if he’s receptive to an extension. Skinner can still score goals and Duchene brought in a monster haul with two years left on his. We won’t come anywhere near that and rightly so, but we can and should do far better than pick and prospect.
That’s not to say that his value is through the moon, just somewhere in the middle of where everyone seems to think it is.
I agree, I just think some people’s expectations are way off. I think there are more hurdles to trading Skinner than many realize b/c of his 1 yr contract, because of what Canes need in return, and because Skinner must agree to the trade.
I concur with that assessment, darth. Which is why I don’t think there will be a one-for-one trade. If we are going to get quality with term we will have to throw in a sweetener or two – a high-value prospect like Wallmark?? – mitigate the rental risk to the other side of the trade.
I don’t think anyone can possibly fathom the depths of the damage that was done by Bill Peters’ coaching style for the last couple of years.
In the end, there was no team. What we had was a bunch of players, each doing his own thing. Nobody trusted that his teammates were going to be there when it counted, with the noted exceptions of Willy and Dahly and Fishy.
The team needed a shakeup in management. Hopefully, the shakeup we have witnessed will be sufficient.
We are now faced with an embarrassment of riches. We have scorers galore. We have more d-men with scoring talent than we can use. We have fast scoring forwards including at least three elite scorers with possibly a fourth in the No. 2 pick we are about to make. Is there another team in the NHL that can make such a claim? I think not.
In today’s NHL, trading is so difficult to do, what with contractual movement limitations and a competitive league (KHL)to which players who suffer abuse (real or imagined) can escape.
Can anyone of us state with real confidence (not hubris) that we know that a particular Cane performed badly in the last couple of years because they are not good players? Can we so state that, ignoring the fact that Peters’ “system” was not working, that some players were likely playing injured at the demand of their coach, that our players were getting the snot beaten out of them with nobody who was willing or able to back them up?
Goalkeepers who were exposed to extraordinarily high rates of odd man rushes as well as high quality scoring opportunities?
Management is addressing the gritless problem. We need one or two big, gritty, stay-at-home d-men, and maybe one more gritty forward. Then we trust the new braintrust to face the high class problem of what to do with all of the talent we have.
I know. I know. TD came by his money by shady means (or so one of his detractors is fond of reminding us), Waddel and Dudley singlehandedly destroyed the Atlanta franchise (or so claim their enemies), and Roddy is clueless about being a head coach (or so some would have us believe). But I think all of that is so much bull ca-ca.
I am excited at the way things are going. I love these guys. I don’t want to see any of them traded. We don’t need more shakeups. We need healing and cohesion. Let’s get down to the business of winning the Stanley Cup.
Go Canes!
I’m on record as a Peters fan but I think when it comes to questioning Faulk or Hanifin a good question to be asked is why did the Canes not run out this top 4 distribution more often – Slavin – Faulk. Hanifin – Pesce. When I saw their stats in that distribution I saw they were more or less similar if not better than when they stacked Pesce and Slavin together. I think when you balance out the pairings like that there is more reason to see both Hanifin and Faulk as assets when they play apart from each other.
Secondly something I couldn’t help but notice was that Faulk was the ONLY player that appeared twice in the questions of would you rather? Faulk versus Hanifin and Faulk versus Skinner. While I’m actually in the camp that believes the team should shed salary via Victor Rask and continue one more season with all 3 of Hanifin, Faulk and Skinner if there was one that I’d be most inclined to move from a ‘value’ perspective it would be Faulk. However if there is one to be moved from a fit perspective it might be Skinner.
Lastly when it comes to Nordstrom or Ryan, those are the kinds of questions we as fans have to think – the better option is NEITHER if we want the best for this organization moving forward. I really do like both those guys and they’ve played their hearts out here, and Nordstrom is a cup winner – but they are both highly 1 dimensional role players. I think equally part of the problem as the ‘core players’ being discussed was that the Canes support players simply weren’t good enough last year. If the team can improve legitimately or at least throw some high-risk/reward rookies into the fire I think the team can do better than : Ryan, RAsk, Nordstrom, Diguiseppe, Stempniak (injured version, version from 1 year ago was a great asset), Kruger, Jooris.
I know Ryan and Rask were 30+ pt players but when I look at their 30 pts versus McGinn’s 30 points I feel like their production was not equal even if on paper similar. McGinn played a pretty balanced game last season and even when he wasn’t scoring he was always a difference maker. Rask was fine defensively but at times looks invisible on the ice, and when Ryan isn’t on his game he is literally overmatched in most cases.
1)Both need to improve. Noah Hanifin has more upside and Justin has been slowly regressing. I am sure Hanifin would have more trade value but would probably not trade either yet. If I had to choose one I would say I would rather see improvement from Hannifin but I would not trade either. Lets see what RBA’s system brings before we start moving our D.
2) What a mess. Darling is untradeable and if there is no improvement he could destroy our season, just like he did last year.
I think we are stuck with him and can only hope he somehow gets better. I believe I am for the 3 goalies. I don’t like that but it is dmage control. If Darling is the same, move him to the AHL without fear of clearing waivers. If he bounces back we can always move one of the other goalies. Cam is solid, just not a starter and we need somebody who can at least win. We need the third guy to challenge for the #1 as we will need two if Darling busts. It is not a good situation. I do not know who goalie #3 is but the only thing I can think of is damage control or just buy out Darling’s contract.
3) Both gone. You need a responsible 4th line in todays NHL who can score and who can defend. Nordstrom can defend well but scoring, zip. Ryan will go with his buddy BP. You go were you trust you will be treated well. BP has a soft spot for him. I do not believe he will resign with us. He is good but he was not strong enough to win puck battles. I would like to have him but I believe he can be replaced with all the AHL talent we have coming.
4) Tough one. They both had a down year and management is on record for moving a long term player. Skinner will probably get us the biggest return. He is still a prolific scorer and many would like to have him. Plus, what do we need, scoring!! Just saying what I think management will do. I think they will move Skinner. Personally I would move Faulk since we do have good D waiting. Either way this needs to be a hockey trade, meaning we get quality back. If we move somebody for the sake of moving somebody to shake things up and get little in return then I will be very upset with this management group. They cannot do stupid things just because they want to make a statement.
Faulk or Hanifin? We need to know more about both players to really decide. Does Faulk want to be here? Sometimes his play suggested he does not. Will Hanifin and his agent demand a big contract, or be satisfied with a reasonable bridge deal? Hanifin could bring the largest return of all the Canes discussed for trades. If Hanifin’s agent is demanding all-star dollars I say trade him. He has shown zero development between the ears IMO. Reminds me a lot of Mike Green. I would like to see Faulk back and with an experienced defenseman partner, but if he’s part of the problems in the locker room…away he goes!
Cam Ward or Scott Darling? If only….The Canes are stuck with Darling it appears. The guy is still overweight. It appears from Waddell’s comments they are ready to consider Darling a sunk cost and send him to Charlotte. If that’s the case then Ward could be kept as a backup and a starting goalie signed or, more likely, traded for.
Ryan or Nordstrom? I love the effort, skill and smarts of Derek Ryan, but he is physically overmatched almost every night. Not fast or quick enough to be regularly effective at his size. I think Nordstrom is a fine fourth line forward/penalty killer. He had a tough year scoring, but he was playing with NOBODY. An upgrade in forward talent would help him a bit with scoring. Nordstrom fits as a 12th/13th forward. Rather have a vet in that spot than bounce a rookie in and out of the lineup.
Skinner or Faulk? I’m on record plenty of times that I don’t like Skinner’s complete game and would like to see him traded. That said, the question for both is are they part of the problem or solution in the locker room? I have no idea. As far as Skinner’s no trade clause I would think he would want to play for a contender ASAP. He can always hit the market as a UFA. Hopefully Skinner doesn’t hold up a trade that could be beneficial for the Canes and himself.
I agree with some of the comments above – I think that there is a high probability that Hanifin, Faulk, and Skinner will all be playing in different uniforms. So that make 1 and 4 moot. 🙂
2. I expect to see another goalie not named Ward or Darling (or Ned) signed for training camp. That goalie will be the one to push Darling for the starting role – I would expect someone like Bernier or even Khodobin who has been mostly a backup but has had extended and successful stints as a starter (if we sign a UFA). So the question is whether Ward is resigned (3-headed goalie) or not.
3.
Nordstrom is a RFA. He is a solid sign for disruption/4th line or 12/13 forward. His offensive play is actually much better when he has a more offensive-minded center (like he with Rask a couple of games at the end of last season) than Kruger or JMac. The question is whether Martinook was signed as his replacement in that role.
For the past few seasons we have had too many depth centers and if you accept that we can’t or don’t trade Rask, then we will have Staal, Aho, Rask, Lindy, and Necas and Wallmark knocking on the door. That leaves no room in the inn for Ryan. Plus his strongest advocate – BP – is no longer around.
On that basis, Nordstrom – again unless Martinook is intended to replace him.
Do any of you guys kno whether an NHL team has any leverage over a player that is under contract?
I know if I didn’t show up on time day after day, violated the dress code or asked one of my vendors to take me out for a $500 dinner and a concert in return for a renewal agreement that I could be fired, which makes perfect sense to me.
Similarly, I think it is a reasonable minimum expectation for a team that a player shows up to training camp in reasonable shape physically, shows up on time for practices and abides by the team rules and programs for on and off ice behavior, diet etc.
It appears that this is not the case. I don’t know how Darling can get away with showing up to camp out of shape (I am not saying he has done any of the other thngs as amember of the Canes but he has not performed and we know he shoed up to camp with a belly full of deep dish pizza and Chicago dogs).
Why can’t the Canes suspend him without pay or something if he does not follow the terms of the contract or the rules of the team?
That sounds entirely wrong to me.
On the 4th line situation, this is why the Martinook trade makes little sense to me. He brings skills similar to Nordstrom at at least 3 times the price. Kruger was not exactly tearing it up but I would rather have traded him for picks or prospects, or a player at more cost savings. I’d be more than happy for him to prove me wrong, but te Arizona blogger thought they fleeced the Canes in this deal.
powerless and I have reached the same conclusion—BP’ system didn’t work for the Canes. Now I was a pretty big BP fan and think he might be okay in Calgary. But the repetition of the same problems in Raleigh even as the cast changed implies a systemic issue.
1) Given what I just wrote, I think both will improve if they remain with the Canes.
2) Ward will be league average somewhere in 18-19. Someone mentioned Corsica yesterday. It indicates Ward was in the middle 20% of goalies in 17-18.
3) My first choice would be prospects in place of both with Nordstrom or Phil D as 13th.
4) Probably Faulk due to the shake things up aspect. Though the arguments made by others are compelling that keeping both would be acceptable.
BP’s approach and system worked very well in 2013-14 and 2014-15. Given the talent level it is surprising that the team only got blown out 2 or 3 times in 2013-2014. What is mind-blowing to me is how many times the team got blown out in 2016-17 and even more so in the season just completed. I don’t know if that is BP’s system, as he tried to modify it with better talent and opening up the ice more, or how much had to do with BP losing the locker room and the team losing the edge it takes to compete.
It’s not the system, but how the coach treats the players. At some point players get tired of being browbeat by a coach. This is where a solid locker room becomes important. You need leaders who have been there and know it’s important to bring it, and in the right way, every night. The Canes had neither the right locker room, nor the coach that knew when it was time to back off.
OFFENSE
1. Aho – New 1C – Turbo
2. McGinn or Zykov – Staal – Williams
3. Skinner – Rask or Lindholm – Svechnikov
4. Martinook/McGinn – New 4C – Foegele/McGinn
Available for trade: Rask/Lindholm, Prospects
Unsigned: Ryan, Nordstrom, PDG, Stempniak (PDG may have best chance of getting re-signed)
DEFENSE
1. Slavin – Pesce
2. Hanifin – New 2RD
3. Fleury – Van Riemsdyk
7. McKeown
Available for trade: Faulk, Prospects
GOALIE
Split Duty – Ward & Lehtonen(UFA)
We have enough assets to get what we need. The question is whether we can actually make deals. I’d like to see what Skinner can do in a contract year with a new head coach and with Svechnikov on his opposite wing. That could be really dynamic with the right center. Svechnikov (he has it all including a mean streak) can play a fast power forward game which I believe is the tonic for Skinner. Hanifin will be elite if paired with the RIGHT partner. Even if Darling remains, I can’t get comfortable with his puck-handling skills. Exciting Stuff.
Great reading all the knowledgeable comments on this site.
Faulk or Hanifin – I would like to see both still here but if I had to choose, I would trade Faulk. Hanifin is only 21 & was thrown to the fire immediately. He has the skill to develop into a great #3 dman but I believe he can play top 2 with more development under a veteran. Faulk has the ability to be a top 2 pairing but didn’t look like he was trying as much last season. I think it was because of Peters, so if we do keep him, maybe he will go back to the quality dman we know he can be.
Ward or Darling – I’m hoping they go out and sign or trade for a possible #1 goalie. Maybe sign Ward to a cheap one year so they go into camp with 3 just as Waddell stated we might do & see who shines in camp. At least it would give us options.
Ryan or Nordstrom – I’m ok with letting both walk. Martinook & the new Finn signings basically replace Nordstrom. Ryan will ask for more money since he had a decent year, but we still have Rask that can fill the 4th line slot or hopefully we trade Rask & let Wallmark give it a shot. Either way we don’t need them.
Skinner or Faulk – This one is tough. I’ve always like Skinner’s unique skating & scoring ability. He is also one of the leagues best takeaway players but his defense is lacking. He also is not one of those players that makes his linemates better. More of a one man show which is great if you’re scoring 40 goals but not so great if you don’t score. Right handed dmen with booming shots are hard to come by in this league so I kinda hope we keep Faulk & see if his games steps back up because of Brindy.
So if I have to choose, I would trade Skinny for ROR. That brings us a top veteran center that will score 60-70 points & help develop our young guys (Aho,TT,Zykov & Svech)
Hopefully something like this***:
Aho-ROR-TT
Zykov-Lindholm-Svechnikov
McGinn-Staal-Williams
Maenalanen-Rask/Necas-Martinook
Slavin-Pesce
Hanifin-Faulk/TVR (or a vet dman if he is traded, could also be TVR here)
Fleury-McKeown (or a vet dman)
Carrick
I do think Necas will take over a center spot if not right out of camp then within the first couple of months. He will either move Lindy over to wing or replace Rask.
Our team is finally looking better & I think the players will play much harder for Brindy.
I just read LeBrun’s article in The Athletic – apparently the Canes, from two sources, are asking for a first round pick and a prospect for Skinner. That is a 180 from what I was expecting (see above). If that is what we are asking for Skinner (a pick and a prospect) Skinner will remain with the team and I will continue to question the wherewithal of Waddell and other management and ownership.
I saw as well and it’s disappointing. But it COULD work out if moving Skinner for pick/prospect means Dundon will allow team to be aggressive in the free agent market. So perhaps they can make a move for someone like JVR. Otherwise, I’d rather wait until trade deadline if we’re asking for a pick/prospect.