Approaching a full month past the end of the 2017-18 season, time has passed to allow the disappointing season to sink in and be processed.
The general thought process is to try to fix what is broken and push into the playoffs in the 2018-19 season. And while that is entirely possible, I think it might be more challenging that some think, and I also think that pursuing a win now at all costs approach does not mesh well with what the team has for strengths right now.
Today’s Daily Cup of Joe explores some of the challenges with fixing the current version of the Hurricanes and simultaneously considers that patience and another smaller round of rebuilding might be the better course of action.
Fixing what is broken is challenging
Fixing what is broken or needs to be significantly improved is challenging in a couple respects. Those who think it is as simple as making a checklist and working through it are misguided in my opinion for two reasons.
First is the magnitude of a couple of the easily identifiable things that need to be fixed or improved. Somewhere near the top of the list is goaltending. But with Scott Darling signed for three more years at $4.1 million per year simply upgrading the position is complicated, especially financially. Darling could well rebound in 2018-19, but counting on that as a cornerstone of a playoff push is much more of a dice roll or patient rebuild than it is a safe and certain plan. The other big need is adding at least one higher-end offensive player, ideally a center, to help boost the lagging offense. As much as it would be nice to just sign John Tavares and consider that solved, the real-world solutions to this problem are imperfect at best. With options to add from outside the organization limited and likely expensive, turning internally to Sebastian Aho and promising prospect Martin Necas is arguably the most promising course of action. But the issue here is timeline. Today’s NHL is a young man’s game which makes it entirely possible that one of both of these talented young players excel at center in 2018-19. But more likely is that there is still a learning process in front of Martin Necas who will make a big jump from the Czech Republic to the NHL as a 19-year old rookie and even for Sebastian Aho who is still early in the learning curve for his transition to center. Allowing one of both of these talented young players to learn on the job at the NHL level seems reasonable and could yield instant success, but it also sounds more like rebuilding with patience than doing everything possible to assure success for the 2018-19 season.
Then even if the Hurricanes can address the couple obvious items on a checklist, the situation actually becomes more complicated from there. For those who watched the team closely in 2018-19, it was clear that the team needs some kind of reset in terms of attitude, leadership, mojo, mentality or whatever else. The team seemingly needs some kind of shake up to start anew in this regard, and that does not come from turning over a handful of depth players. If the team does in fact make changes of significance to the roster, that too screams rebuild over win now though it is probably a necessary element for the latter.
Considering the strengths looking forward
A significant positive right now is the team’s youth and significantly improve prospect pool that is just on the cusp of providing NHL-ready players who have developed up through the ranks to become well-rounded and ‘overripe’. But there are a couple challenges in leveraging this upside. First is that there can be an adjustment with growing pains for young players stepping up to the NHL level. Second is that there can be some trial and error required to determine which players can convert AHL-level success to the NHL. Somewhat similar to Aho and Necas at center, there will likely be growing pains during a conversion phase. Yet again, this sounds very much like rebuilding.
And as noted above, playing young talents like Aho and Necas at their natural position at center position plays to the team’s strengths but with an uncertain timeline.
If the goal was 2019-20…
If the team resigned itself to another year of rebuilding and focused on the 2019-20 season, I think it looks like this:
Scott Darling gets another year to try to rebound, give Nedeljkovic another year to prepare and if nothing else to burn another year off his contract.
Sebastian Aho and Martin Necas (if he proves ready in preseason) are given the chance to learn on the job at the center position and in a way where they are challenged not shielded from difficult situations and match ups.
A healthy part of the roster is left open for the 2017-18 AHL successes to be given good opportunities to convert that success to the NHL level in meaningful roles.
Part of the core and leadership is changed up in hopes of changing the mentality.
By all means that formula could yield instant magic. The topsy-turvy NHL regularly has rebuilding and struggling young teams suddenly figure it out and become good. The Winnipeg Jets were a young team with a ton of upside but little in the way of current success until all of a sudden the success arrived. So I think the possibility of the Hurricanes youth just figuring it out is there, but I also think that if the team does go this route heading into the 2018-19 season that you have to mostly let it runs its course without aborting the mission almost immediately because it looks like it will not yield instant success.
What say you Canes fans?
1) Am I nuts to even consider that 2018-19 could be another rebuilding year even if only of the mini variety?
2) Is it time to just go all in on the youth movement?
3) What do you see as the potential for things to just click with the young players such that the Hurricanes become one of the ‘newfound success’ stories for the 2018-19 season?
Go Canes!
I would think the goal would to be to improve on the team’s record in ’18-19. The Canes are in a rough spot. They have some young talent, but you can’t rush it. It will be ready when, and if, it is ready. Adding to that cache of talent is important to do every year. Hopefully the #2 pick will make a significant impact.
The Canes are hamstrung by the fact they really can’t make much noise in free agency. First, they are still a small market team without a ton of cash to throw around. Unless Dundon is prepared to hemorrhage money, he can’t compete for the top talent. A big issue is a few of the horrible contracts that Francis left the Canes. There is over $10M in pretty much dead money on the books next year. (Darling, Rask, Kruger and Semin) Second, they have been a perennial loser that isn’t very attractive to free agents that want to win. Throw in the circus that has been going on since Dundon came to town and I can’t see a quality free agent choosing to come to Carolina.
The Canes need a couple years. They need to get out of neutral, where they have been with Peters for three years, and make progress getting better. They also need to calm the storm around the front office of the Hurricanes. I think they can do both this season. Then they should hope to see their young talent move forward, some dead contract come off the books, and maybe, just maybe, become a place free agents would want to land.
1) It probably is a rebuild–I expect 4 rookies (Zykov, Foegele, Necas, Svechnikov). So while they will all be better than the players they replace, there will still be much learning as you indicate.
2) Yes–see above.
3) Very high potential–though even Taylor Hall took a year and some new blood to “click” in NJ. I am putting together an extremely long (and slightly wonky) view of how the on-ice Hurricanes can shift the team paradigm, but it is not quite ready. A shorter version is that there are two keys: A) commit to two scoring lines (Zykov/Aho/TT and X/Necas/Svechnikov). The key is that X isn’t on the current roster and Skinner doesn’t really fit, so the conclusion is Skinner needs to be traded for a player with slightly less scoring ability but who will provide the 200-foot stability to allow Necas/Svechnikov to succeed. As you mention, saying it is much easier than finding a partner and executing a trade. However, if the organization is willing to commit to the youth and be willing to make a trade for a “lesser” player but one that better complements the rookies, then the new look Canes will be better off.
There should be B) before “Skinner needs to be traded.”
Agreed. Possibly for a goalie that has a chance to be a #1 or a veteran defenseman. No way you are getting a top 6 forward for Skinner and the Canes have plenty of bottom 6 forwards.
Disagree… with the right coach, Skinny could provide the scoring and spark that will help smooth the growing curve for Aho, Necas, Svench(???). IMO.
Skinner scored 37 goals under Peters in ’17-’18. It isn’t the coach. The guy has been wildly inconsistent offensively his entire career. Throw in the defensive liability he brings and he is best someone else’s problem.
I like Skinner. But in trying to get my head around what is finally going to return the Canes to playoff relevance I only come up with two scoring lines consisting of some combination of Aho/TT/ Necas/Svechnikov/Zykov and a disruption line featuring Staal/Foegele /McGinn. Skinner doesn’t fit the 5-year-plan for either type of line. And I don’t see him on a tweener line with the likes of Lindholm and Williams. So I see trading him for a valuable vet who can make the transition easier for Necas and Svechnikov.
Seriously as much as I like Skinner I don’t think the team has committed to change if he is around. Though I would be thrilled to have 53 prove me foolish.
1) With a new coach and system likely on the way, a rebuilding year is perfectly reasonable. There is one piece of data, though, that has caused me to completely rethink what means to rebuild. The mind blowing piece of data is the Vegas Golden Knights.
In an expansion draft where teams could protect 7 forwards, 3 defensemen, and a goalie, (and Players with less than 2 years of pro experience), VGK could select exclusively from the bottom half of the roster in every position. Every selection was a player that “somebody else didn’t want”, or more accurately, didn’t protect and therefore made them expendable. And VGK is one of the favorites for the Stanley Cup.
How did this happen? No young stars, no ligitimate 1C, a new Coach and new system to learn, new liines, pairings, teammates, one of the best teams in the league. Every GM and budding GM should have a detailed use case on VGK and whether it was a complete fluke or there is something to learn from it. Although no one foresaw William Karlson going from a guy who never scored more than 10 goals to scoring 40, well perhaps Vegas saw the potential. Perhaps there is a lesson there, and perhaps we should learn it.
Since all VGK draftees had 2 or more years of professional experience, it can be a little different to build from within with youth. However, it must be Dundon and Co. position that rebuilding is not an excuse for failure. It is an opportunity afforded the very best players we can assemble, and it is their time to shine.
2). This season was time for a youth movement, and it was set back a year. Now it is past time for a tough movement. And can we find a William Karlson?
3) we need the right coach and system, then anything is possible. In an 82 game season there is an opportunity to lay in tons of detail on top of a solid foundation. Situational awareness and “hot reads” – taking what the other team gives you instead of trying to do the exact same thing all of the time – are the foundation of the very best modern professional systems. I haven’t watched VGK enough to assess their system, but the possibilities intrigue.
This will be an interesting season to watch unfold.
Vegas also had the benefit of no bad contracts they were stuck with. Big deal in the salary cap age.
Finding a William Karlson is quite a feat.
Not sure that bad contracts had anything to do with this season.
My point is Vegas got to start with a clean sheet. Dundon doen’t have that luxury. He has bad contracts and other players he probably wants to unload. Vegas got to pick who they wanted. I’m sure Dundon would love that opportunity.
I feel the term ‘rebuild’ is overused in sports today. Why is it that teams can tank to the bottom of the standings and the next year are back in the playoffs? Those are teams who usually change their core (they don’t swap 4th liners and patch goaltending while thinking their youth movement is going to be the fix). Now look at the Canes, our core has not been what we needed for several years (Staal, Skinner, Faulk, goaltending in general). Not saying these are bad players or men, it’s just they didn’t fill our needs (1C, 1D, 1W, 1G). Yet we are paying them as top line producers?
The fix should be clear and it’s NOT free agency. TRADE our core and replace with mid/upper 20-somethings who bring a different jam and mindset. It will clear the stale air and bring fresh leadership into the room. The players in return don’t have to be all-stars, rather able to fill top line rolls as our talented youth develops on the fly. In short, we can trade for a new veteran core, and allow the kids to be kids on-the-job. This mix can propel us into the playoffs, like other teams have shown to do.
The goal should be to improve the team, not use the phrase “rebuilding” as an excuse for skimping on adding talent or not encouraging current talent to perform to the best of their abilities. That may have worked in the first 3 or 4 years, but it’s closing on a decade. A small market team that has not made noise in the playoffs for over a decade is only going one way, the opposite of “into town”. The team has to show improvement and desire this year.
The NHL is a game of wills, and when a team is “rebuilding” the players feel they don’t have to absolutely give it their all, and they end up losing. I think the rebuilding mindset has been partly at fault for the sorry performances we’ve seen from some players in recent years.
WE can get an upgraded 1B goaltender, someone young with upside. Just see Tampa Bay (signing Arizona’s backup goalie and he played well).
We can find another team’s backup goalie, update their salary a million dollars or so and give them e legitimate chance of rising up and seizing the #1 slot if Darling doesn’t come through.
And if TD wants to win, he has money to buy Darling’s contract out.
I’d look into trading Darling from an experience forward with albatross contract (looking primarily at the ducks but also Bobby Ryan).
Yes, it will cost some extra money but the player has leadership, a chance to rebound in a new place and we can perhaps upgrade the greatest weakness of the team.
We have access to a quality winger from the draft. That person won’t setp in and score 40 goals in the nHL but should be a significant improvement on the right wingers on the roster.
maybe Dudley can influence some ex players to come and join the team, I am thinking Max obviously.
The key is to truly give young players a shot at playing meaningful situations this year, back them up with some veteran leadership and a go for the cup mentality. Don’t fill up the roster with older underperforming players and only giving the call ups limited 4th line roles.
Necas register 0 points in his stint with the Canes this fall, looks bad until you see that he he got 6 minutes in one game, on the 4th line.
1. Mini variety, sure. Nothing more.
2. Yes go full youth and hire Vellucci as the HC. BUT with youth movement we still need a stacked “veteran” top 6.
Im moving out Lindholm, Faulk, Rask, and Skinner.
Im trying to get Stone from Ottawa and Patches from Montreal. Finding a solid veteran RHD to play on Hanifin’s side.
Zykov-Aho-Stone/other veteran
Patches-Staal-Williams
Turbo-Necas-Svech
McGinn-Wallmark-Foegele
Reset the roster, add yourh for energy, and veterans for mentoring.
3. The chemistry is the key. We may struggle early but as they play together, they will get better.
If you can get someone to take Rask you would be GM of the year. There are dozens of AHL players that can do what Rask does for NHL minimum.
Putting Zykov with Aho on a 5 on 5 line is a big burden. Aho is already going to have additional defensive responsibility as a centreman and then to put a questionable defensive player and poor skater with him? No thanks. If Zykov succeeds in the NHL it will be as a specialist ala Tomas Holmstrom.
I agree the lineup needs some veterans. They need good examples as the current young guys haven’t necessarily had that experience. A good veteran defenseman that plays the right way is very important in my opinion. Can even be a third pair guy as long as he is a hard worker and good in the locker room.
Zykov played with Aho and Turbo to end the year.
Sure, when it didn’t count. He struggled a fair bit.
Zykov produced at a 55+ point pace. I am not sure how much better you want a rookie to play.
@Cane_alytics
I’d say Valentin Zykov passed his NHL audition. In his 10 games:
56.6% Corsi for
58.7% Expected goals for
68.6% Goals for (!)
2.86 primary points per 60
3.34 points per 60
obviously a small sample but he is #1 on the team in all of the above
(stats at 5on5/adjusted)
1. Designating a “year” as a rebuilding year is saying another “losing” year without the playoffs. You and others may consider that as satisfactory, but I will not. It’s just a term meaning preplanning an excuse for not accomplishing what is necessary to make the team competitive for the playoffs. Management and writers use it to preplan and prepare the fan base for failure in hopes that it will soften the blow when failure occurs. In other words, it’s preplanning for failure. A team’s results should be measured by whether it makes the playoffs (was successful) or doesn’t make the playoffs (unsuccessful) as a first stage. Then when it gets to the first stage successful level (can make the playoffs), the grading starts over again with unsuccessful being made the playoffs, but lost out in round 1 or 2 and successful being got past round 1 or 2. Once successful at stage two, then successful is playing for the Cup in a championship game, etc. The reason for this lengthy dissertation is I think we don’t seem to grasp that if we have another “rebuilding” year, just how far we are from really giving the fans anything to hope for and management has weaseled its way out for not doing what management is hired to do as well as at least 16 other management teams in the league, but more likely not as well as over 20 other management teams in the league each year as other teams improve and replace playoff teams from the prior year.
To put this in perspective, if we have another rebuild year (don’t make the playoffs) this year and Buffalo, Edmonton, Montreal, or Ottawa, etc. (any of the non-playoff teams from this year) make the playoffs would that justify our being out because we were in a “rebuilding” year? All of those teams would be in the same type year as the Canes, but somehow their results would result in success (making the playoffs) while we would be measuring success by stating we didn’t expect to make the playoffs so things aren’t so bad. The thinking of losers IMO.
2. So who hasn’t been in for an “all-in” youth movement for the past 4 years? The fans have supported it. Francis was in an “all-in” youth movement for the past 4 years with a coach (Peters) who wasn’t in accord and stunted our progress. Being all-in means “PLAYING” younger players and prospects in the NATIONAL HOCKEY LEAGUE. It doesn’t mean adding more prospects to an AHL or junior league team.
3. We should have enough firepower with prospects already in the system that could move up to the NHL and give us the scoring we need. We have so many of these prospects, the job will be determining which ones will be successful this year (the upcoming season). If we don’t find the needed additional scoring from this source, then the previous 4 “rebuilding” years were a resounding failure. Trades can help fill in voids, but IMO trading away a 30 goal scorer who was mishandled by management is not the starting point unless you are getting a 30 goal scorer that you prefer back. When you make trades that does not always solve a problem. To get what you think is a valuable asset, you give up a valuable asset. This results usually in the weakening of another area of your roster which you then must hope one of your youngsters will fill as well as that valuable asset you gave up.
Could not agree more RR.
also agree… stop with the term. We seem to be in a good place, (almost great, with the #2 pick) and that brings me back to RF. I still don’t understand why he was fired. We have the stockpile we have because of him. I know his big gamble didn’t work (Darling), but I still like the way he did not go for the shiny things at the risk of the future. Maybe BP was more of the problem than I thought.
Also agree that we don’t need a superstar. We do need a star leader (Williams), but Vegas is showing the the team approach can work. With the youth, the 2nd pick, hopefully a new good creative coach we should improve.
My conclusion: I don’t care how they do it, what players they use to do it, who coaches, who is on what line…just make the playoffs with an improved record.
Alright, I think we all know if it does turn out to be a rebuilding year, I’m okay with that. Still got patience for days here folks…:)
1. In all seriousness, Matt I think you might be a little off here, in that we will have a similar and more talented roster than last year, where our biggest problem was blowing leads. If Darling can rebound to average level, and the players keep developing under a coach that they haven’t tuned out, there’s no reason to think they can’t have a huge turnaround. It happens in the NHL all the time.
2. It’s always been time to go with the full youth movement, the previous management team’s flaw was that they were too cautious about it. Let the kids make mistakes and get messy. That’s how you get better. Mistakes are crucial in the growth process. Let them make em.
3. I see it just as similarly as a Columbus team a few years ago, given the right leader to guide the team and build an identity. Is it likely? Probably not, but with the young talent on our team on both sides of the rink, there is not a single person that has a clue how our next season will turn out. That is the nature of development. Here’s hoping we see several players take big steps forward in a better locker room environment.
Finally and most importantly. If the Canes are going for more rebuild, you have to do it right. And that means not building for a simple, meaningless playoff berth, that means keep building with an eye on Cup contention. Trading away young talent for veteran players will work when we get to that level, but right now, that is so damaging to the long term.
We need not worry if fans will leave next season. Everyone will come back when we start winning again. And if they don’t, well I don’t miss them.
yes, agreed!
Well put RR!!
Gocanes, you are forgetting TT *grin*. I thik Aho and TT are an inseparable duo.
1. Not a “rebuild” but a “reboot” – at least that is my hope. And that reboot comes with a significant turnover in the roster (already hinted at by TD). A youth movement – a refresh of the veteran core (I think players like Skinner and Faulk have had their time here; and Lindholm and Rask are borderline) to change the energy (no more excuses for losing!; no more acceptance of it) – new coaching that is open to young players. PHI did it last year, with its emphasis on young and I think we have a better young core. But they cannot be playing in an environment in which the veterans are seemingly fine with making excuses for losses.
In terms of youth making mistakes – how many mistakes were made in our defensive zone by veterans (F and D) that lead to easy goals. I will take the mistakes of young energy than “oops – I should know better”.
2. Not all in – but a lot more in. And I think that a lot this season had to do with Peters’ reluctance.
3. The potential is there – we have highly talented young players who have been playing in winning cultures. Their love of the game, their drive for success, their skill level – combined with the right veteran leadership (Williams, Staal, Ward) and bridge players who play the game the right way (McGinn) and a couple of pieces that can be picked up – 2017-18 should be the last playoff-less season for years.
1) Enough of the term rebuilding, it is nothing more than an excuse for loosing and not having to give your all because you are not expected to win.
2) IMO we do bring in the youth that RF/BP refused to use. Not all will stick. It is normal for teams to bring in the youth and some make it. We just never tried. TD has money, he will not be afraid to go get a top UFA. The lineup needs some veterans. Rask and Faulk have low trade value, but so be it. See if we can move them. I agree, not easy.
3) I do believe there is potential for the young players to click. You see it all the time. Our mistake was we never really tried. “Overripe” apparently means totally unused. I see too many examples of young guys coming in and making big differences. We never gave it a chance because our coach wanted NHL players. Big mistake. I also agree with RR that a 30 goal scorer was never used correctly by the coach.
I think we all agree with Matt that the team should not trade away picks and potential roster players for a ‘win now’ veteran group, the trick is to play well enough to get to the trade deadline in a playoff position, then get available help to get over the hump.
But we also can’t go into the season thinking that losing is in any way justified because we are rebuilding. The mentality must be to use the youth, to play hard, to stop making excuses for losing and put up an honest effort every game, all game.
I will forgive a playoff miss if the young guns step up. play hard and improve as the season moves along, but I will not be satisfied with another year of the same.
1/ I agree with the comments that want to avoid the term rebuild: the goal is to win, period, and we will win as many games as we can with the players that skate for us. Hopefully, we’ll have a team that wins enough to qualify for the playoffs, and have a team constructed in a way that can go deep into them thereafter. I do agree with you, Matt, that this may take some time and patience from here given how many holes there seem to be.
2/ As for youth, I think our best players need to play no matter how much NHL experience they have. In our case, many of our best players are going to be young and inexperienced. Being the best players in this context means the total package leads to more wins; in math terms, a higher average with more volatility and a higher standard deviation vs. a lower average with smaller standard deviation. I’ll take more volatility in performance if it leads to higher total performance all day long – and by the way, isn’t that what we’ve seen from our young blue line? When they are good, they can be excellent; they just aren’t always excellent and sometimes even awful.
3/ I am not ready to give up on Darling given how Clutterbuck has rebounded with WIN after a terrible season last year; goaltending was basically the reason WIN missed the playoffs last year (most of the team is essentially the same) and I’m sure they entered this season with a “hope and pray” attitude. It’s a roll of the dice, but one I’m willing to take, especially if we sign a capable 2nd goalie (whether that’s CW or someone else.
When I look at our young players and compare them the the slightly more mature players in the playoffs, I worry less about whether they have the skill (I think they do) and much more about whether they have the competitive fire and grittiness to succeed when the games are chippy like they are this time of year (I’m very on-the-fence here). I would like to see signs of toughness now and not have to wonder about whether they’ll have it later – kind of like what we see in Brock McGinn.
To solve this problem, I’d personally, I’d like to see JW take Lindholm aside before the first game next season and challenge him (and tell him we need him) to hit someone hard in the very first game that leads to a fight. Get him and the rest of the team physically engaged early to establish a new baseline for “hard to play against.” That may be a little extreme, but I think other readers know what I’m getting at here.
And McGinn’s an interesting case for another reason: to everyone on this blog, he’s consistently over-performed his lower-ceiling grade and yet each year over the past three years he’s improved to the point now where the next step is being a legitimate Top-9 contributor. Most of our young players are going to need a similar three-year horizon to grow into being solid reliable NHL players like McGinn’s becoming.
As for bad contracts, every team has them and there are always going to be a few on every team as best we try to avoid them. In the grand scheme of things, Rask’s contract (which seems to be the worst now) is not all that limiting.
The core needs to change so the attitude changes. Maybe the dust settles next year into a team that surprises on the upside; it’ll likely take more than one year. More importantly, we’ll have a team with a higher ceiling that is built to go deeper and compete for the Cup. That’s the end game.
In response to…”I’ll take more volatility in performance if it leads to higher total performance all day long”…
100% Agree!!! Make a mistake or have a subpar game, so be it? Battle through and turn that downward stretch into solid play. Learning and “owning it” should breed confidence and a sustainable trajectory upward. It’s like following the stock market everyday, you need the right mindset.
dmiller, you have got the spirit and have mentioned and highlighted the things needed for improvement. Since we know the problems and we know what it takes to remedy them, then there is no reason to go into the next season without making every effort to remedy the problems in this off season.
People will say well goaltending is a problem and its not easy to remedy. I say its not easy, but its not impossible. You just have to work harder and smarter. You can’t pass on any opportunity to remedy these problems waiting on some event to occur in the unspecified future (use the rebuild excuse). Goaltending again for example, Ned, Booth, and any other prospect in our system has to be given a true shot at being the man. We can’t wait for 2 or 3 more years for them to develop. If they or the existing goaltender (Darling) can’t do the job this year, then we MUST go out and get someone we think can do the job.
Interesting article today for everyone to consider. Much like telling Sisyphus that one more time will get the rock to stay.
I enjoy everyone’s input. It is refreshing to read different opinions without personal attacks on each other. So don’t beat me up too bad on this. Why does everyone want to get rid of Rask?
A 25 year old center with size. I grant that he will not win the fastest skater award. Some things I think I know. He played hurt in 2018. How long and how bad I don’t know. Also, he probably will not be sending Bill Peters birthday cards in the future. So I think there is an opportunity for him to bounce back. He gets healthy and a new coach could make a difference. I don’t think I’m the only one who thought his contract was great when he signed it. If Rask was 32 with all those years on his contract I would agree with some of these comments but that is not the case.
He scored 93 points from the 15-16 season to 16-17 season. He had a bad year. Almost the entire team had a down year. I have had a separated shoulder and I know how painful it is. If Rask didn’t hit anyone with a bad shoulder, I for one don’t blame him.
I suggest that most teams would like to have a center with size and can average 46.5 points a season when healthy. Why should we trade one away? Skinner and Faulk due to contract and team fit are another story for another day.
I don’t want to be the Rask apologist. I do however want to pump the brakes on trading him for pennies on the dollar. He can be a solid part of the team going forward.
jm97, your comments are right on IMO. I believe we have played Rask in the wrong role as a top six or top nine center. IMO he would be an excellent as a 4th line center providing not only good defense but bringing some offensive potential to this line. The Canes IMO need to change their view of a 4th line’s role. In the old NHL it had just a checking, shutdown, grind line type role. In the modern day on winning teams this role has evolved where now we expect this line to be able to play defense AND also provide depth scoring. Rask played a conservative defensive game (one of only a few forwards who was a positive plus/minus)last year that the coach asked him to play and he still provided an acceptable level of offense despite less ice time than some of his other team mates. The only worry I have about Rask is his health. A healthy Rask is a valuable player to have. Just my opinion.
The problem with Rask is the contract that we gave him, which obviously is not his fault. It’s true he played injured for what appears to be a good part of this season, and he may bounce back in a big way (or he may play awful).
I agree, if we can’t trade him for someone that helps the team now, it is better to bet on his past and recovery.
Same with Skinner. The kid can be a phenominal scorer. This year, for whatever reason, was probably his worst. We know the talent is there, maybe it’s an injury or lack of motivation, but if we can help him overcome that problem and get back to what he does best, score goals, we know he can produce.
I’ve lost the faith in Faulk and think he should be traded for a reasonable return, but he is another case of someone who played astoundingly bad this year.
I think, we the team cannot negotiate with Hannifan, that there might be potential for a big trade there. We’ve been disappointed with him but he has a high ceiling potential and there ar team s out there desperately looking for offensive defenseman.
still has a high reputation in the league, the allstar game and all that, so maybe we can sell high on him.
We had a lot of good players under perform this year, the question is, was it injuries, coaching, systems, team morale, personal issues or lack of motivation.
If those factors can be fixed, these guys have a lot more to give. Trading them away for another bunch of lower round picks, most of which do not pan out (even if we’ve been smart or lucky with many of ours) is not going to fix the team as much as getting them back on track.
You can bet TD is not looking at next season as a rebuilding year; he’s going to assemble a team that will make the playoffs by bringing in some key veteran leaders through trades and maybe a couple of savvy UFA signings.
I don’t believe we will be going all-in on the youth movement. Svechnikov, McKeown, Foegele, Zykov and Wallmark/Roy could all be new and that is enough for one year.
I believe things can click for our young team but it’s critical that some new key players are added. If we give Darling a year to rebound then it better be with Charlotte first. It strikes me as absurd to hinge the success of another season on a player that performed so poorly. Upgrading his position is easy since his Save % was the worst in the league for goalies with more than 15 starts.
Five rookies is a lot of youth for one season. That’s the most I’m expecting but I’d consider that all-in on youth.
So my roommate had this suggested to him on Cap Friendly by a Habs fan. Hanifin and a 3rd/4th rounder for their 3rd overall. Helps them with their serious defensive issues and gets us Svech AND Zadina.
I understand this is far fetched, but understand why I’m dreaming here.
Teravainen-Aho-Svech
McGinn-Staal-Williams
Skinner-Necas-Zadina
Foegele-Wallmark-Zykov
Extras: Di-Gi and Rask
You could just keep Faulk and bring up McKeown and the defense would take a a bit of a hit, but it opens up more of an opportunity for Bean, while the offensive ceiling of that forward group would be staggering. Sorry if I had to dream out loud a bit, but this is my new favorite might-but-probably-won’t scenario
Love it Fogger!
That would be truly awesome, but the canadiens would never go for it.
They´re a team in full rebuild mode and having a good player on ELC costing little to nothing is probably something a team won´t trade away, not. I sure wouldn´t coplain if this opportunity was offered. Note that the canes have actualy traded Kruger to Az.
1. Skinner/Necas/Svechnikov
2. Foegele/Staal/McGinn
3. Rask/Lindholm/Williams
4. Zykov/Aho/Teravainen
So those obviously are not the “order” of the lines–because the Canes have the personnel to move beyond first through fourth line thinking.
1. Fogger you argued convincingly more than a month ago that Necas was the most talented player in the organization–so put him with Svechnikov who will now have that place of honor. That tandem, along with Aho/TT, is the future and it is bright. This is where Skinner makes sense, but not a lot. Which is why I think a trade for a Pacioretty or RNH type would be perfect, because two rookies on a line, no matter how talented, are a risk. But to Matt’s original point, it is time to commit to the future. While the two may struggle, Necas and Svechnikov are the two players who can make this scoring line work.
2. This is the line that will make life difficult for every opposition–but it is not a “checking” line. It is light years better than Nordstrom/Kruger/Jooris (though to a point tj made several weeks ago, Nordstrom is still valuable and he should be 13th forward–more about that another time). McGinn is developing into a decent offensive forward who may well have 20 goals in him.
3. I think Rask will thrive on the wing with two players who both have the ability to set up teammates. Lindholm will thrive at center for an entire season. He is still young (Couturier is a good role model).
4. TAZ deserves to keep producing the excitement it generated for 10 games. In fact, I am surprised by how quickly Zykov has gained doubters without actually doing anything to create doubt.
So tell me which line is the fourth line? I think they should get nearly equal even-strength time and then the special teamers will take the rest.
By the way: First PP unit =Aho/TT/Svechnikob/Lindholm;
Second PP unit = Staal/Necas/Zykov/Williams. A significant improvement from last year.
The PK: First = Staal/McGinn; Second = Lindholm/Foegele
Again getting a Patches or RNH for Skinner would provide an option that would be a big upgrade.
I know it looks like I am completely against Skinner–but it is more that I am against a fourth line with the likes of Martinook. Skinner just happens to be the piece that doesn’t quite fit the model of two scoring lines, a disruption line, and a balanced line.
For the people who are waiting to see what system our new coach will run; do you know what system Brindy would implement ??.. because he is real close to being the next head coach.