Continuing with this week’s theme of building the 2017-18 blue line, the Thursday Coffee Shop will attempt to build the all-important top 4.
If you missed it and want to catch up, the focus of the Monday Coffee shop polls/discussion aimed at building the third pairing and filling the #7 defense slot for the 2017-18 season.
Since then, the report cards for the defenseman who played at least part of the 2016-17 season in a top 4 role have been posted. Here are clickable links for those articles – Noah Hanifin, Ron Hainsey, Justin Faulk, Jaccob Slavin and Brett Pesce. I continued my harsh grading for the blue line awarding only the the duo of Jacob Slavin and Brett Pesce A’s. Noah Hanfin and Justin Faulk who figure to be in the mix for top 4 earned modest B- grades, and everyone else received a C. In short, though the future of the blue line looks incredibly promising and strides have been made in that direction, I think the ‘right now’ reality is that below Slavin/Pesce, the group was ‘meh’ or worse in 2016-17 but has the potential to be much better in 2017-18.
With that, today’s polls and discussion questions take on the task of building out the top 4 to gain that improvement.
Carolina Hurricanes polls
Please remember to click ‘vote’ after each individual poll response.
As a starting point, as of writing this article 61 percent of readers had Noah Hanifin confidently inked into the top 4. Here are the results and/or a chance to vote if you have not already followed by other questions on the top 4.
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To keep the choices from being infinite, I started from the assumption that Slavin, Pesce and Faulk were sure things in the top 4 and also with the assumption that the combinations would be natural L/R matches. Those are reasonably probable but not certain, so feel free to use other if you think something a bit more eccentric will emerge.
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Carolina Hurricanes discussion
1) If you are in the camp that would at least consider adding a veteran #4/#5 defenseman, what is your maximum budget for this addition? Would you consider two years term on the contract or only one? Who do you like either via regular trade, expansion draft-related trade or free agency to fill this slot?
2) Somewhat related, based on how well he rose to the challenge in about 25 games after the Ron Hainsey trade, what are your thoughts on Noah Hanifin’s readiness for the next step in his development and/or a bigger role?
3) After what I rated as a choppy 2016-17 season defensively for Justin Faulk, what do you expect from him in 2017-18? And if you agree with my assessment of his 2016-17 season, what do you see as the cause? And what do you think it takes for him to play at a higher level defensively in 2017-18?
Go Canes!
First. I voted “other” for pairings. Haydn Fleury is a top 10 pick who has been developed. He should be ready, though he should be given every opportunity to have early success in the NHL. Others (on this site and other sites) have commented that the statistics indicate that Pesce makes his partners better (yes, even Slavin). So my strong preference is for Pesce and Fleury to be a pair to begin the season. Technically I think that leaves the top 4 as Slavin and a new addition (more below) with Faulk and Hanifin as 3/4 pairing.
While Fleury will still be a rookie and make some first-year mistakes, he appears to be capable of replicating the success that Pesce and Slavin had in 15-16. He is big, defensively sound, and doesn’t commit many penalties. If Fleury does have a Pesce-like rookie campaign, then Carolina has three pairings that could be considered top 4.
1) So my answer is obviously based on what I laid out. Yes, add a solid right defenseman, ideally a right shot. Franson would be ideal, but might be too expensive because the maximum budget is probably 2 years/$5M. Hunwick might be an option though he is left shot. I think the most interesting UFA is Yannick Weber. He has never been considered top 4 and doesn’t play nearly 20 minutes a game, but he has been solid in the playoffs. I would think he would sign for 2 years/$3M.
2) Hanifin is already taking the next step. As you mentioned he played well to end the season and at the World Championships he was on top pairing.
3) Faulk is probably never going to be shut-down type. However, I think with a solid partner he is top 4. As much as I like Hainsey, I think he was much of Faulk’s problem–together they magnified each other’s weaknesses. Actually Faulk and Hanifin create problems for the opposition by adding offensive strengths. And I think Hanifin will be much stronger defensively in 17-18, which will help Faulk as well.
Really, 6:12 AM? And good comments too.
Faulk is a stud offensively, and will probably improve defensively, so I’m not overly concerned. I’d be shocked, if anything changes with him. Maybe they move him, but it would have to be an unbelievable return to consider, and I don’t see that happening!
I wouldn’t be surprised to see a 5/6 dman (young defensively sound) acquired, with the hope he could grow into a 3/4 slot.
1) I voted to spend on forward rather than looking for someone capable of filling into the top 4, as I have Hanifin lightly penciled into that slot and we frankly don’t have the budget to overspend anywhere in the line up. The priority for me on Defense at this stage is: avoid having to settle with Dahlbeck anywhere in our lineup. I haven’t done enough research to suggest who we ought to pursue but a right shot somewhere around 5 mil over two years would be ideal. I’d be more than willing to sign someone for two years if it means getting the right person.
2 and 3) I think I mostly covered this question on the Faulk report card thread but to elaborate a little further; I see Hanifin as showing he’s ready to at least be slotted in the top four to start the season and Faulk needs to work on his defense over the summer.
More specifically, I think Faulk’s down-tick in defensive capabilities stems from a perspective shift that occurred when his offensive numbers exploded. This is entirely conjecture since I don’t have access to his inner thoughts or team operations but it seemed to me, he used to be a “do the little things right” kind of player in his first two seasons. When his offensive numbers exploded and our offence was even weaker (or less dynamic, ie. get a powerplay, pass to Faulk, hope he scores) than it was now, he started trying to do too much and carry the team on his back, which I loved to see but I think it hurt his overall ability to be a defender. With the additions of Aho, TT, the upward trend of Lindholm and Skinner putting a complete game together, Faulk needs to go back to basics so to speak and start focusing on being our hardest working defenceman.
I hope that’s not taken as saying I don’t want him involved in our offence because I think he is a very important cog in that machine, I simply think he can effectively contribute being the last man entering the offensive zone. This would hopefully either leave him open to take a shot without someone directly in front of him defending, or the other team has to leave someone up where he will be entering from and thus creating more space down low for a forward to get open.
Oh my, sorry for the wall of text. It would appear I think about the Hurricanes more than I probably should.
Eric…No worries on long comment. Great to see people passionate about Canes hockey in May.
A long time ago, I commented regularly on a message board where the moderators tried to cajole people into limiting their comments to 1-2 lines of text. I am not a fan of over-controlling what people do with comments other than being respectful to others. And I personally appreciate hearing your and others’ viewpoints in some depth.
I get that some people prefer a string of shorter comments, but I think it is easy enough for people to scroll and read whatever they choose based on their preferences and how much time they have.
ericiversen21, I’m with Matt. Don’t worry about length. You should see some of my postings. You make excellent points and add to the conversation. Keep it up.
Eric. You are not alone in spending too much time thinking and otherwise being a caniac. I have actually watched some of the Memorial Cup. And now I see why Matt and Cory are so high on Foegele. Keep sharing–it gives the rest of us more to think about. In fact, your observations about Faulk’s struggles make perfect sense. So I agree that if TT, Lindholm, Rask take a step up, Faulk’s D will improve. Then again, I think everything will improve next year–late May hockey here we come.
Verbal diarrhea comes easy to me so I’m the last guy that should be complaining about post lengths. I’d like to see Slavin/Pence pairing broken up as they are essentially the same type of player and play well together, but (weirdly) don’t compliment each other’s play as much as I like (puck moving d paired with stay at home guy, more defensively responsible player paired with more offensively gifted player, etc.) As much as we hope Slavin, Pence, Hanifin all improve in the offensive side of the game, the jury is still out so I really hope the Canes can pick up a top 4 d-man that can bring more scoring to the blueline. I’ve seen stats that place them solidly in the middle of the pack in regards to team defense points and goals (higher than middle for goals), but I don’t think the stats tell the whole story in that teams with more firepower from the blueline force their opponents to play a style they are uncomfortable with or force them to move out of their preferred system of play, opening up more space for the forwards. A second team power play point would be ideal.
Well, here I am at 9:45 AM and the crew (ctcaniac, puckgod, and now ericiversen21, have already covered most of my points in fine fashion. My brief additons are:
1. I wouldn’t be spending too much time looking for another 4-5 defenseman. First, there isn’t much out there when it comes to a right hand shot. Second, we have to give Fleury, McKeon, etc. a chance. Only if RF and the staff have already determined none of our youngsters are ready would I go looking for one. To me, the best option out there now is Quincey and he is lefthanded shot. He’s good defensively and really brings some grit.
2. Hanifin: I believe he is ready.
3. Faulk: He just needs to keep his intensity level up in games. He appears to get lazy at times on defense. Coaching should take care of this. I have no worries about him if he does this.
LOL, I am not an early riser so will not be first very often.
1) I think there is merit to the Fleury/Pesce combo. I do believe Hanifin is growing and clearly a top4. With Slavin, and Faulk that makes 5. We need one more. An additional 4-5 defenseman is possible. I would keep it under 5M for 2 years. But at the same time Murphy could still fill that. It is possible he grows, he did look better at the end of the season before getting hurt. McKeon didn’t have a great year but he could potentially fill this also. I would wait until Traverse City and training camp before making any move on the defensive side.
2) Hanifin is ready
3) Agree with ericiversen21…. and long comments are fine. People can scroll down if they do not wish to read the entire contents.
1/ I’m not in this camp but recognize we may be young and inexperienced without bringing someone else in. I’m just not sure it’s a higher priority than more offense if the budget is limited (see last week’s excellent discussion).
2/ Hanifin is ready especially with the right partner. I liked his pairing with Faulk and agree with ctcaniac that this pressures opponents.
3/ Faulk is a notoriously slow to start the season. I thought he was excellent down the stretch and only hope he heats up sooner next year. With the right partner and role (ie, Hanifin and not shutdown pairing), he’ll be fine.
4/ I voted to keep Slavin/Pesce together but one thing I forgot to factor into my thinking: this year Hanifin suffered greatly from not having a stable line-mate and I wouldn’t want to make the same mistake with Fluery/McKeown next year. Maybe it makes sense to put Slavin with one and Pesce with the other to add stability.
5/ agree with redryder, ctcaniac, 6:12am, really?
6/ ericiverson21, my posts are long, too. Sharing is good. Passion is good. A short post that should be longer is bad.
Ironically, I don’t drink coffee. Since I take my son to school at 6:45 and then head to work, I rely on C&C to get me going. If I don’t answer the questions early–y’all will have said everything that needs to be said and move on.
Seriously, Matt, Cory, and Jordan have me thinking more about Canes’ hockey than I ever thought I wanted to think about Canes’ hockey. And then each of you brings up an even more interesting angle. So yeah–I look forward to my Morning Cup of Joe.