It is a bit delayed from the normal Monday posting, but a new Coffee Shop post is up with ‘stay or go’ polls for the Hurricanes forwards.
The most common question I get about Hurricanes hockey right now has to do with the team’s search for a new general manager. I have written very little about it simply because I do not have much for insight on the situation past what everyone is already seeing fly across Twitter.
Trying to summarize the chain of events
Hearing that Carolina had preliminary phone call with Mike Futa (LA) Friday; also believe Hurricanes have reached out to former Canucks AGM Laurence Gilman. Belief is Carolina has reached out to Nashville regarding Paul Fenton and Tampa regarding Julien Brisebois, obvious names..
— Pierre LeBrun (@PierreVLeBrun) March 10, 2018
A few other names were added to the list, and then it seemed to immediately start shrinking.
Hearing that Mike Futa, concerned about the search being in the middle of LA’s playoff race, has “respectfully withdrawn” his name from consideration for the CAR GM job
— Elliotte Friedman (@FriedgeHNIC) March 13, 2018
Hearing this afternoon that Nashville's Paul Fenton has withdrawn his candidacy for the Carolina GM job.
— Elliotte Friedman (@FriedgeHNIC) March 16, 2018
Heard tonight that NJ's Tom Fitzgerald also pulled out of the CAR GM search. Reached for comment, he said, "This is nothing against Tom Dundon. I am very happy in New Jersey and this is not the right time for me."
— Elliotte Friedman (@FriedgeHNIC) March 17, 2018
I believe that leaves the Carolina GM candidates as: Mike Vellucci, Laurence Gilman, Tom Fitzgerald and Steve Greeley. Some of them next week will have in-person interviews. The process could still expand at some point with new candidates, but for now appears those are the guys. https://t.co/8RhOPogSxR
— Pierre LeBrun (@PierreVLeBrun) March 16, 2018
Pierre LeBrun’s tweet above seems to be the most recent list, though Tom Fitzgerald is another who fell off per Elliotte Friedman.
My understanding is that Carolina is now shifting gears. Going to put a pause on the new GM search until the off-season when a wider field of candidates may emerge. Timing wasn't right for many guys.
— Pierre LeBrun (@PierreVLeBrun) March 17, 2018
Trying to make sense of the situation
When I try to summarize my thoughts on the current situation, it breaks down into two parts — First is the reported state of the search and candidates. Second is everything else that is swirling around the situation.
The state of the search and candidates
For me personally, this feels a bit like the NHL draft. Starting about two weeks before the draft, the volume of people who are experts on pre-NHL prospects grows by a factor of 10. People who barely track players for 50 out of 52 weeks of the year do a bit of research and are suddenly experts. The general manager thing is similar. People go from doing Google research on a new candidate name who just came onto the radar to being an expert on his qualifications in about 20 minutes. While I am aware of some of the names in the pool, I will not pretend to suddenly be an expert on evaluating them.
But at a more general level, here are my thoughts…
If one assumes that the original list of people considered was significantly bigger than the desired interview list (seems reasonable), the team seems to be casting a wide net to start. That is generally a positive.
But because of the need to have a deep understanding of the specifics of the NHL and a large number of players, the pool of potential candidates is fairly narrow. This is not like the business world where there are always 10 more possibilities if you recast the net. Once you build a list of 15 or 20 or whatever it is candidates, that really is the list. As such, the fact that a couple of the top candidates were reported to very quickly take themselves out of consideration is a concern.
Everything else swirling around
Potentially more interesting than the general manager search is everything else swirling around Tom Dundon right now. When he acquired the team, he was largely an unknown, so it was not clear exactly what his role would be with the team as compared to previous owner Peter Karmanos or other NHL owners. Early indications from the business side were that he would be very hands on down to a micro level. Ticket promotions, game experience tinkering, merchandise changes and other things were different by February (if not sooner) which was only two months after the acquisition date.
On the hockey side, the removal of Ron Francis from the general manager position was Dundon’s first big move, and what a move it was. This article is more about trying to make sense of the path forward, but if you missed it, you can find my original article on Ron Francis’ removal HERE.
The swirling itself is interesting. Increasingly, Tom Dundon is being painted as at least potentially being an over-involved owner by the broad hockey media. Is this a function of the Canadian media standing up for its own and pushing back against an outsider? Or is this impression/accusation accurate? Speculation will run rampant in this regard, and I like many others will be watching closely for clues. But I think it will take some time for this to become clear. There are just so many possibilities. Might Dundon be intentionally trying to put a lightning rod right through the roof of PNC Arena to try to jolt the entire organization with the intent that once he generates a necessary reset, sees who is in and who is extra and then puts a few key people in place that he will gradually be less involved with the day to day. Will he mostly stay away from the hockey side once a new general manager is in place? The questions are numerous right now and the answers are sparse. Cory Lavalette from the North State Journal did a fairly lengthy interview with Tom Dundon shortly after the Francis announcement (If you missed them, Part 1 and Part 2.). The article offers a bunch questions and words, but after reading it multiple times, it mostly meanders and does not really offer much in terms of clarity. Actions will speak louder than words anyway.
Mike Vellucci is interesting
Again, not so much from the angle of being able to evaluate him as a general manager, but more from a conceptual level Mike Vellucci is arguably the most interesting candidate on a couple levels.
First, he is from within the organization but is maybe the only person uncovered by the dark shadow that has come over the organization. By virtue of leading a Checkers team that seems destined for the playoffs, he has an air of winning over him.
His ties to Raleigh and the team might also make it easier to recruit him even given whatever risks candidates are tagging to the position.
Finally, I do not know details of Vellucci’s relationship with Ron Francis, but if they had a good working relationship, there is at least a chance that giving Vellucci this role makes it possible to keep Francis with the organization.
The other side of the coin is the possibility that Dundon wants a cleaner break from the old group and someone who is his person in the general manager role.
The interrelationship with the coaching position
Another interesting situation is the potential interrelationship between hiring a general manager and making a decision coaching-wise going forward. At the simplest level, a general manager would be responsible for hiring and firing coaches. But as I noted on Twitter after Tuesdays’ game, the situation is more complex than that for the Hurricanes right now.
Tom Dundon is in a really tough spot right now. It could not be more obvious that Peters has lost this team, but with no @NHLCanes GM & building rumblings/impression that Dundon is too hands on, firing Peters is another step in that direction.
— Canes and Coffee (@CanesandCoffee) March 21, 2018
I continue to be of the opinion that Peters should have been relieved of his duties after last Tuesday’s debacle against the Bruins. It is becoming increasingly clear that he has lost this team and that wheels are coming off the thing. If there were one or two games left, it would make sense to ride things out. But nine games is A LOT, and I think especially with a young team, significant damage is potentially being done to the team’s psyche and culture right now.
But the fact that the Hurricanes are without a general manager right now and that Tom Dundon’s seemingly hands on approach might be a negative in this regard complicate the coaching situation. If Dundon acts on this before hiring a general manager, it will be perceived as another step in the direction of doing too much with hockey operations. And the team would then be without a coach or a general manager hurtling toward the offseason.
The positive could be the complete restart that maybe is needed and also a jolt to the entire organization that sparks it. The negative could be that because of the seeming chaos, it becomes incredibly difficult to bring in good people because those with other good options decide it best to watch and wait for awhile before jumping into a highly uncertain situation.
What say you Canes fans?
1) What are your thoughts specifically on the general manager search? From your research, do you have a preferred candidate? What do you make of the number of quick ‘no thank yous’?
2) Do you see the general manager, Tom Dundon and coaching triangle as being as complex and murky as I do right now?
Go Canes!
We are in bad shape everywhere.
The list of people pulling their names from consideration is not a good look. If Dundon is talking to these people it doesn’t sound like he is impressing them. Some of Dundon’s public comments would give me concern if I were a GM candidate. “I’m impatient” and “I want someone I can argue with” are not things most GM candidates would want to hear. I think this is the downside of an owner playing to the fans. Recently it was reported that the salary the Canes were offering for GM was $400K. If true, definitely on the low side.
Peters is gone, but firing him now or last week would make no difference. When Francis was relieved it was pretty clear that Peters would be following him out the door this summer. You don’t think the players see that? If Peters and staff hadn’t lost the team before the Francis move they certainly did after that move.
It’s time for Dundon to shut his mouth and go to work upgrading the talent in the front office, behind the bench, and on the ice.
1. I have no preference candidate at the moment. As far as the no thank yous, it’s a combination of the candidates focusing on the pkayoffs, and a bit of uncertainty over how much reign Dundon would give his GM.
I think that Dundon is encountering the less pleasant side of the NHL establishment’s “good-ole-boy” network. This includes the media. Dundon is an outsider. There is nothing he can do to change that.
But then, he doesn’t need to change that. Rather than running into a wall on a continuing basis, I think he should promote Rod Brindamour to GM. Promote Vellucci to head coach and hire someone to coach the Checkers. Rather than trying to play to the NHL establishment and media (who will NEVER accept him, no matter what he does), Dundon needs to play to the fans. Roddy knows players and coaches. He knows many GMs. He played with many of them. All he needs to do is score a couple of great draft and player deals as well as an aggressive free agent deal or two, and the fans will line up to buy tickets and jerseys and beer and hot dogs. Spend money on the product and the fans will beat a path to your door, Tom.
The Philadelphia Flyers started out as a small and fast team who were considered by the original six as a non-entity. The fans weren’t supporting the team. And the team was getting the snot beaten out of them; on the ice as well as on the score board. The Flyers ownership decided to put together a team that the fans would love. A team that would have an identity that set it apart from the rest of the league. And the Broad Street Bullies was born. They filled the house each home game. They filled the house when they were on the road. They made money for everyone. They won a couple of Cups. But the league still hated them. It must have been a special moment when Clarence Campbell begged the Flyers to play and beat the Russian Red Army team, after the Russians had beaten everything the NHL could throw at them. The Flyers beat the snot out of the Russians. The NHL never loved the Flyers. But the fans did.
And really. What else matters?
1. I have no problems with the general manager search. Things like this take some time and I am unwilling to join the forces of the uninformed and unwilling to be informed such as the Canadian hockey media and claim the “sky is falling.” The Canadian hockey media hates this franchise because before the purchase by Dundon they had this franchise as their best bet for a team in Quebec. Let’s give TD some time to pick a good person and not assume the worst (although I do understand why most of us including me have a tendency to expect the worst when it comes to Canes hockey). My only PREFERENCE would be we go outside the current organization for the GM and new coach. Put Roddie in as interim right now and breathe a little life into the last 9 games. As far as the GM position goes, I am willing to listen to you, Matt, and any of the other contributors to the site.
2. I see nothing murkey. All TD has to do is spend some good dollars and the candidates will come out of the woodwork. Better he pays the GM well as he will get a better return on his investment in the long run.
I am going to try a different approach.
I have read on other Canes-related sites that trying to acquire JVR would be a mixed bag: he can score, but is not talented/engaged in the defensive end. Let’s say we do get JVR this offseason. Let’s say he scores goals, but while on the ice the team lets in more than they score. Would we be saying–give him time or he is playing outside an “old boys” system. My guess is we would be saying his strengths don’t make up for his weaknesses (much like the current position on Skinner).
Well, the organization now has an owner who went bankrupt in a highly competitive business (restaurants) with similarities to the NHL. He succeeded in a business where vulnerable people could be exploited–not similar to NHL, unless you consider how GMRF used the salary cap to get players from Chicago.
I truly hope he learned from the restaurant business and not the predatory loan business. But his actions appear to be reflective of the latter.
If the Canes had won every game since changing RF’s title, people would be saying the owner’s “bold” move was directly responsible. There seems to be too much deference given to someone with a specific history. I truly believe it is not about the “Canadian media” or the “old boys club”–the whole Moneyball management theory directly challenged both and succeeded. Thus far the new owner is worse than the team he bought.
I think there is probably one constant amongst most if not all assistant GMs. They want to be full GMs. So to have 3 AGMs pull their names off the list with each, apparently, after an interview with Dundon (I read that Fitzgerald had flown to Mexico to interview with Dundon because Dundon was there on vacation) is a real tell and it is a negative one.
Or it is a negative one if what is desired/expected/needed is a standard model GM. Remember the commotion that Cuban brought to the NBA when he bought the Mavs – he was a different kind of owner with a very different approach. That quickly turned Dallas from a 500-club to a much higher level of success. There are differences. But note that Cuban also had Don Nelson in the organization – then as coach and he retained him in that position for several seasons. Cuban had a basketball guy in the organization he could trust – does Dundon have the same in the Carolina organization? if there is anyone, maybe it is Vellucci. When I encountered him in Charlotte he came across as a very high energy guy. He came through the Checkers’ version of the fan tunnel just after the players with the expectation of fist-bumping everyone there – unexpected by me to say the least. And he is a hockey guy who preaches and lives accountability – ask the Checkers players who are regularly healthy scratches.
I think the issue is whether you expect business as usual in Raleigh with the new owner or not. I think his moves on the hockey side very clearly show it won’t be.
My primary concern right now is that the lack of a GM is going to have a snowball effect regarding coaching decisions and player personnel decisions (draft, FA market) – it would be a lot better if we had someone in place before all that starts to take place.
But maybe with Vellucci we already do???
This is like health insurance. You have in-network and out-of-network providers. In-network providers are part of the “good ole club”, whereas out-of-network providers are not. Out-of-network providers may be unknown or unverified, and they are not part of the verified club, so take that as you may.
In Carolina hockey circles, we’ve had the in-network owner and GM (and GM’s apprentice) for 20 years, even longer back to Hartford. Doesn’t that constitute change outside the existing network? And if we cannot answer this question, 9-straight playoff less years can (flip side, 8 playoff appearances in 38 total years if you count Hartford days). This organization hasn’t had a string of winning since it’s 1979 inception. Think about that.
Yet the average fan fears change if it involves the unknown. The mainstream media goes against change (especially if said change is out-of-their network).
I’m thankful for an out-of-network owner, and eager to see a young/energetic/process-oriented GM in place who can speak Dundon’s language yet make sound hockey decisions which align to the overall goal. Enough with the in-network old guard. Time to right the ship!
Correction to above, meant to say only 3-winning seasons (above .500) in HFD, plus 5-playoff appearances w/CAR (they made playoffs 8 times in Hartford though it was near impossible to not make the playoffs in a 21-team league).
I mostly agree with Red Ryder. I believe RF & BP will still be under contract next year, and since this is also a business these $ could be a factor. The new GM should have a major say in who the coach is next year, and also the style of play best suited for the team. To fire BP now takes away that option.
One thought is for TD to hire a GM that represents a contrasting counterpoint in style to RF. The new GM should have a proven track record of success. I would prefer a former GM to a newly promoted assistant GM to lessen the risk, since I have no appetite for a new GM learning on the job.
Is there a former GM & president out there, currently unemployed, that has won Stanley Cups and increased the point totals for the team he took over for five+ consecutive years? Yes, but as always there is another side to his story, with blunders and missteps leading to his most recent ouster.
I must admit I’m not sold on Dean Lombardi, but he may be available and could be just what the doctor ordered – the shrewd deal-maker and team builder to play counterpoint to the conservatism of RF. Interestingly, Lombardi has close ties to an unemployed former coach that will likely be hired by another team at some point – Darryl Sutter.