Today’s Daily Cup of Joe includes a small collection of random Canes notes that have not found their way into articles yet or could benefit from a deeper dive.
Blue line depth, Justin Faulk and the potential impact on Adam Fox
In the blockbuster trade that sent Elias Lindholm and Noah Hanifin to Calgary for Dougie Hamilton and Micheal Ferland, the Hurricanes also obtained an extra bonus in prospect Adam Fox. Fox is not just a low to mid-tier throw in. He is a high-end blue line prospect who I (and others since then) rate above Jake Bean who previously topped the team’s blue line prospect rankings. Fox was allegedly available because the Flames thought he would not sign but rather would play out four years of college and then become a free agent.
The burning question is whether the Hurricanes can convince him to sign next summer after his junior year. Personal factors and other things could come into play, but looking at the situation solely from the angle of Fox considering his opportunity joining the Hurricanes versus signing with another team, there are a few things to consider.
First is the logjam on the right side of the Hurricanes blue line right now. With Justin Faulk still in tow, the team has four proven NHL defensemen who are right shots right now. That does not look great for Fox hoping to get NHL ice time sooner rather than later. Just in general, the strength of the Hurricanes blue line is a negative right now for Fox.
But I think somewhat of a path could be cleared if Faulk is traded as I expect. Then the team can pitch the possibility that Trevor van Riemsdyk leaves eventually and also the general lack of depth in terms of blue line prospects. Just maybe that and persona preference is enough to get Fox signed.
Michael Fora as Niclas Wallin
Last spring, the Hurricanes signed Swiss defenseman Michael Fora to an entry-level contract. As a player who will turn 23 years old on October 31, he is not your typical young prospect. He is farther along in his professional career and with more experience. Might he be NHL-ready sooner rather than later and ready to fill a depth role somewhat similarly to Niclas Wallin who the Canes drafted at an older age partly because of his NHL-readiness?
Locked in long-term
Many are talking about how the Carolina Hurricanes suddenly have one of the best blue lines in the NHL. If that proves to be true on the ice for the 2018-19 season, the team is in a great position fairly long-term. The entire top 4 (which I consider to be Slavin, Pesce, Hamilton and de Haan) is locked up for three years. Slavin and Pesce are actually signed for six and five years respectively after the 2018-19 season. De Haan will have three years remaining on his current deal and Hamilton two. The team also controls Fleury’s rights long-term with him just being a restricted free agent next summer. Only Faulk and van Riemsdyk could leave soon with both becoming unrestricted free agents in two years. Having players locked up long-term is a double edged sword. It is a positive if the players perform but equally a negative if they do not. But at a basic level, I think one has to like the state of the blue line right now and also the fact that the team can ride the core of it for multiple years.
What say you Canes fans?
1) Do you think the strength of the Hurricanes blue line and the limited space it offers for a player like Adam Fox short-term could be a negative in signing Fox?
2) For those who have seen him in prospect camp and/or Traverse City, what is your impression of Michael Fora and his NHL-readiness? Could he fast track to the NHL like Niclas Wallin? Or is he just AHL-level depth with some ability to grow to NHL-level in a couple years?
Go Canes!
Can’t rate either guy, but if nothing else…it’s a good advantage to be able to deal from strength (on the D)!
So far I’m not impressed with the “Committee’s” deal-making! Hope they learned something from the Skins debacle!
Most arm-chair GM’s believed that the Canes “got fleeced”! AND IT’S HARD TO LOGICALLY DISAGREE, IMO!
One additional point or two…didn’t see the Tr.City games so I just have to go on results and comments from others, sooooo…
1. Maybe we fans have been a trifle optimistic about our rookies.
2. Training camp should be a good time to get realistic and sort out the “wheat from the chaff”, eh?
How about the big Russian we are bringing in on a PTO as well?
on the Fox deal, we are going to need to lay out a solid plan to get him into the lineup for him to sign with us. I think we can paint that picture with TVR only signed for two years. Fox will more than likely join Charlotte (if signed) after the NCAA season is over, unless it messes with him graduating (that is the reason he didnt sign with Calgary or us yet). He’ll have a chance to battle TVR for number 3 RHD defender next season. If he wins out, a one year TVR deal wont be hard to move. If not, give him a year of seasoning in Charlotte and let him battle for the open RHD slot.
If Fox is signed, does it spell the end for McKeown here? I cant see him signing back on as he would want to go somewhere he could get a roster spot.
1. It seems to me that Fox is playing out his time at college and will take advantage of his free agency to sign with a team of his choosing. for sure, that status of each teams blue line at that time would be a consideration he would take into account.
2. I haven’t seen enough of Fora to really have much of an idea about his readiness. My take is he was signed because management has determined that McKeon and Carrick have only AHL level talent. If this is the case then management is looking for another defenseman to possibly quickly develop into at least a serviceable 3rd pairing defenseman. Otherwise, I can only conjecture that Fora was signed because the Canes were not able to draft a defenseman this year and they just wanted to flush out the talent pool a little.
1. How we handle Fox will say a lot about two aspects of O/M.
(a) At the end of last season TD emphasize the statement that the team will be going out looking for players “better than you” with the exception of Aho. Time to move from talk to act. If Fox is better and we want him we will make the moves necessary to get him.
(b) Will the Hurricanes become a team players want to come to. If we want Fox here we have to show him we want him. If we tell him he’s going to Charlotte and then will have to compete his way into a stacked roster then guess what? – he is not signing.
Fox wants playing time and he wants to be on a roster that has a chance to win. He also wants to be wanted – and he wants to be paid. We have to make it very attractive to him to get him to give up the prospect of free agency in the summer of 2020.
2. I haven’t really followed either game to see what players other than the top forwards are doing so I can’t speak to Fora – nor was following the Canes when Wallin was here (I don’t think) so I can’t speak to him.
I am very interested in the big Slovak being brought in on the PTO – Michal Cajkovsky. He is being described as European playing in the KHL – he is that, but he also has North American ice time between 2010-2015 in the OHL and the ECHL, putting points on the board at the rate of about 0.5 ppg. He was solid in the Czech league the past two season – can’t find his KHL numbers from last season though. Given his size and his previous scoring he could be a very strong addition.
The O/M has already stuck to its promises of upgrading players, it brought in Pu for Skinner and Mrazek for Ward. š
I’m still hoping for a longterm contract for Aho, or some sign that management is not on vacation right now.
Who is this Slovak kid? Forwward or defenseman? Sounds interesting.
Pacioretty to the Vegas Golden Knights for forward Tomas Tatar, prospect Nick Suzuki and a second round pick.
Seriously, compare that to what the Canes got for Skinner, a similar caliber player with same term left on the contract.
Ok, Skinner is a slightly less than MP, so I could remove the second round pick, but Mtl gets a replacement NHL caliber scorer, a top round prospect with huge upside and a pick, the Canes got a prospect that barely cracked Buffalo’s top 10, and second, 3rd and 6th round picks.
I just can’t get over how horrible a trade this was, no matter how I slice and dice it.
I’ll do my best to eventually stop going on about this but this has to be one of the worst trades in the last 5 years (that do not involve the Oilers).
Breezy, to make matters worse, I see that Pu is listed as injured in Traverse City.
I guess the big unknown about the Skinner trade is how many teams wanted him in places he was willing to go. Pacioretty was on the record as being enthusiastic about Vegas and they needed scoring to replace Neal. Tatar is not far removed from a 25-goal season and he’s only 27. On the other hand, he is signed through 2020-21 at $5.3 M. It will be interesting to see how Tatar figures in Montreal’s plans.
The Canes must have wanted Skinner gone by a certain date and wanted spots to play their prospects so they took the offer they had. It’s still a bad deal for the Canes.
It is easy to equate the two circumstances – but they are not equivalent. Skinner was/is a true 1-year rental – picks and prospects. VGK, on the other hand, had a negotiated a 4-year extension with Pacioretty prior to the trade and were willing to give up more to get him as a result.
Nevermind that Skinner limited his trade possibilities to 5 teams.
I thought the same when I read Breezy rant. They are two totally different situations.
Looking forward to watching game 3 in Traverse City at 7. Disappointed that Saarela has been so invisible. Real excited about what Kuokkanen has shown.
How about this 6ā4ā Chech defenseman that is getting a PTO. O/M may think he could be the enforcer we need. Donāt have a clue if he can do anything other than fight but I like the move.
Yes thank you for pointing out the sign and trade difference in value versus rental player.
Cajkovsky…? Never heard of him, but expect he is another Dman who might compete for a job in Charlotte. We’ve already got more D here in Raleigh than we need. Meanwhile unless more forwards show something in Traverse…that is where we need help, if anywhere!
Appreciate people trying to make me see some sense in the Skinner trade.
It’s not working, but I’ve never claimed to be particularly normal, and definitely I do not claim infallibility.
The thing with the Skinner trade is that he is going to play his buns off this year, playing for a big contract.
Why couldn’t he do it for the Canes?
Yes, there’s the argument that we could have let him walk for nothing at the end of the season. Fact is, the team got close to nothing for him in this trade, and decided to forego the year where he needs to put it all on the line. There was also the trade deadline and I would be hard pressed to imagine the Canes getting anything less than they got now.
The only difference I see in the two trades is that one team was willing to wait and maximize its value while the other dumped their long-time star player for next to nothing.
We all want to find excuses and see the sense in it. If y’all’s can honestly see the sense, I’m happy for ya. I can’t.
Now I better find a ladder to climb down from this high horse of mine. *grin*
Anyways, I’m done ranting about the Skinner trade for the season, that’s a promise. *grin*.
Well, unless we play Buffalo and he scores more than one goal against the Canes.
I think the issue is that you are looking at it as though this were a hockey trade – that normal hockey reasons drove the decision to move Skinner. A trade was made because the owner – with, from what it sounds like now, the support of the new coach – wanted Skinner gone before the start of the season as a team-culture move. With his NTC, Skinner had all the power and could have said he wasn’t going to be traded. But he was pressured for a list and provided a very limited list. O/M made the best trade available from teams on that list – but it was not about the hockey, it was about O/M/C wanting Skinner gone. At that point, you take what you can get.
I’m not really agreeing with either point of view “Exactly”, my take is the O/M basically broadcasted their intentions, so EVERYONE KNEW THE PLAYBOOK, THEN THEY MADE A TERRIBLE TRADE! So, because the rookie owner had to put his fingers (HELL, his whole hand) in the pie…we got zilch for a very good player, who should be great…?
I guess my point is that I disagree with that decision to begin with. I could’ve lived with it if the team could justify it by getting something in return, which I feel they didn’t.
Anyway, it’s all about the results on the ice. Speaking of which, the Traverse City tournament is not the high flying, high scoring, the future is so bright I got to taint my windows start that we had hoped for. Storm clouds on the horizon or just bad luck? I wasn’t worried after last game, I figured it was a fluke, but now I am beginning to imagine another season of forwards who can’t score and can’t compete, not even at the jr. level against other prospects.
I concur!
Disagreeing with the decision to begin with is an entirely different thing – O/M/C was definitely going to move Skinner.
At least we still have Darling in net, everything’s going to be fine.
I don’t know guys, this is the first time in 10 years I am seriously losing faith in, and respect for, this team. I want nothing more than to be wrong, and I am hanging on for signs of hope, but my passion for the Canes organization is just fading.
I hope you don’t share my feelings on this.
I’ll never lose my passion – but over the past couple years have I lost my faith in them? Absolutely. They’ve done NOTHING in the past decade to prove to any of us that the people making decisions in the organization have any semblance of good strategy or good organizational philosophy.
They’ve given me the impression they are cheap and would rather do it with homegrown talent (like Skinner and Staal) and then when things fail let’s blame the homegrown talent and send them off as outcasts…