Today’s Daily Cup of Joe looks at the fringe of the NHL level for the Hurricanes and considers players for whom the team needs to make decisions fairly quickly.
Haydn Fleury
The poster boy for play me or let me go right now is Haydn Fleury. He has played decent hockey thus far in 2019-20 but is now relegated to the press box as the #7 defenseman with Trevor van Riemsdyk back in the lineup. Even with a back-to-back set that could have made sense to use Fleury, Brind’Amour decided to go with the same group that had won three straight and left Fleury in the press box.
Fleury is at an interest point value-wise as a young defenseman with decent size and skating ability and NHL experience to boot. He would seemingly have value to a team with less blue line depth that saw potential upside for Fleury who is only in second NHL season at the age of 23. I wrote recently about the potential longer-term need for Fleury with van Riemsdyk and Edmundson set to become unrestricted free agents next summer, but the other side of the coin is possibly collecting trade value for Fleury if the team only views him as a #6/#7-ish defenseman long-term.
I would like to see him in the lineup either way hoping to either boost his trade value or see if he can grow into a bigger role.
Jake Bean
Next in line on the blue line is Jake Bean. He is a bit younger at age 21 but still very much a player that the Hurricanes need to figure out at some point. Bean had a strong first professional season with the Checkers last season but by my estimation still was very much a questionable proposition defensively in preseason/training camp this fall. He is another high draft pedigree player who is nearing the point where he will no longer be waiver-exempt. At that point if the Hurricanes are unwilling to audition him at the NHL level, very likely someone else will claim him off of waivers and do so.
At best, Bean is #8 on the depth chart right now which means it likely takes a couple injuries for him to see ice time at the NHL level. Depending on how the team’s scouting and management see Bean’s potential, is there a case for collecting value while he is an unknown with upside? Based on the team’s depth chart, that has to at least be considered.
Julien Gauthier
From the same draft class as Bean, Julien Gauthier is another player with a high draft pedigree and NHL-capable skill set. He was the story of preseason, but one has to wonder how much of that was level of play and how much of that was the Hurricanes marketing. Gauthier has been linked to possibly trades for Jesse Puljujarvi. Might playing Gauthier in every preseason game been a push to boost his value not for the Hurricanes but for the trade market? The physical skill set is there such there should be some value for a 22-year old with every bit of the physical skill set for a modern day power forward.
Alex Nedeljkovic
Perhaps the player with the most urgency for the Hurricanes is Alex Nedljkovic. After a strong season in Charlotte in 2018-19, he figured to the team’s choice as backup at the NHL level for the 2019-20 season. But when the team happened upon a chance to move Scott Darling for a player potentially with usefulness short-term and potential trade value long-term in James Reimer, the team pounced on it. That move slotted Nedeljkovic back in the AHL. But as another high draft pedigree prospect with some success at the lower levels who will need to clear waivers to return to the AHL next season, the Hurricanes are officially on the clock for figuring out where he fits into plans at the NHL level. I think ideally, the team is able to trade James Reimer sometime between now and the start of the 2020-21 season to clear space for Nedeljkovic. But no doubt the team would also like to audition him at the NHL level to get a higher degree of confidence that he is ready for that role. In addition to having Reimer, the situation is now complicated by the fact that Nedeljkovic is off to a slow start with an 0-4-1 record and a meager .874 save percentage. Ideally, its a two step process from here. First, Nedeljkovic needs to get his feet under him and find some rhythm and confidence at the AHL level. Then second, the Canes need to find a way to get him starts at the NHL level to see what they have before next summer.
My 2 cents
The team has shown an aggressive willingness to make decisions and move on from players who did not fit long-term. Based on that, I would not be surprised to see as many as two of these players traded before the start of the next season if the team can collect reasonable value.
I think Nedeljkovic will get a chance at the NHL level this season if injuries present an opening and possible even otherwise.
What say you Canes fans?
1) Which, if any, of these four players will play his way into a meaningful role at the NHL level?
2) Which, if any, are most likely to become trade bait?
3) What do you think the team should be doing with each of these four players?
Go Canes!
IMO, when a player reaches waiver-exempt status is usually around the same time a player’s true market value is determined. For instance, if Fleury is still a 6-7D than his draft value is that of a 3rd rounder (likely the offers CAR may be receiving). Bean is probably worth a 4th rounder by now, same for Goat Man. Ned probably worth a 2nd based on his AHL success. I also think this is why no trades have been made yet, because the Canes will not get max value and take a loss on their high draft stock. Same scenario is likely with Pool Party, as Edmonton wants to sell high but many teams are probably thinking he’s not worth a 1st rounder given he’s overseas and not on North American ice. And so the perceived game of value revolves, and is why trades that make sense either delay or don’t occur.
This works the other way too, Slavin and Pesce drafted lower are now probably worth gold.
When I shake things out, I think Ned’s time is next year and he needs to feel like “the man” in CLT again to regain his touch. He was probably bummed after an incredible year for his path to be blocked by not one, but two goalies if you count Forsberg (who I see as backup this year if Reimer is dealt). Understandable, but management is probably aware of the adverse affects on it’s young and developing talent. It’s management that needs to decide and soon.
If by “meaningful role at the NHL level” you mean with the Canes, then Fleury already has. This is his third season at the NHL level – he played 67 games for Bill Peters.
I don’t think any of these players have longevity with the Canes. I was high on Bean last year in CLT and thought he would transition to the NHL this season and push Fleury for 3LD. His game in the preseason was clearly not where it needed to be. And I don’t think either he or Fleury play the game the way RBA wants it to be played – RBA demonstrated last season he doesn’t trust Fleury and even with his improved play this season. I think that is why we signed an experienced LD – a perceived hole in our current lineup.
Fleury has reached the point where he is probably a diminishing asset. His value will decrease the longer we keep him and don’t play him. There are teams that can use him today on their third pairing. But he needs to either be on the ice or on the trading block.
It is hard to see Bean getting much NHL ice time this year – it would require multiple injuries. He had great trajectory last season under Vellucci. But Warshovsky (sp?) is several steps down in his player development skills.
Gauthier is almost guaranteed to not be with the big team. He has been sent down twice now and clearly RBA prefers Gibbons. Some of it is style of play, some of it is consistency in play (Gauthier still takes shifts off) but the teams views him as being still a project in the d-zone, he is considered slow on his first step. And as exciting as it was to see him bull his way to the crease, I don’t think there was a time when he got to the goal that the puck on his stick had any momentum. Gauthier will be a replay of Zykov, I think.
I have heard that Ned’s woes are due to disappointment for not getting a good look at the NHL level as well as a significant falling off of the team in front of him. His numbers are atrocious and 11 games in he is still looking for his first win of the season. Ned is highly competitive and works with a sports psychologist, but he is making it very hard right now providing a reason why he should be called up at all this season. And as much as I like Ned I am not sure he will be a NHL goalie without making changes in the type of game he has been playing his whole life.
After practice yesterday RBA did say that Fleury will be getting some ice time soon.
https://www.nhl.com/hurricanes/news/gameday-preview-carolina-hurricanes-philadelphia-flyers/c-310865652?fbclid=IwAR0LrM4oOB1insyjsgPGz4SzZAgrzhZYxB3vXHlqCn5B-54yxCMG7Plse00
I think a trade of Fleury, possibly plus a second round to Edm for Pool Party may be in the works.
I don’t know what’s wrong with “our Hayden”, or wy he never gets a real chance in the NHL even when the other D isn’t playing so great, but Roddie clearly doesn’t like him (he knows Fleury better than do I so maybe his reasons are valid, I don’t know).
, but I think the team needs to play him or trade him soon and Since the Oilers are always looking for more D and want to get rid of the Pool party, it seems like there must be discussions.
I think we need to bring up Gauthier and let him play on the 4th line. That line is overall a disappointment and has contributed preciously little to scoring this year, so I don’t see why we shouldn’t audition players whose value needs to be determined this year.
I think a goalie trade must be In the works. The Sharks have the worst goaltending and must be eagerly looking, small chance we can press Reimer on them, but we might be able to trade Forsberg to them for some value and move Ned closer to the opportunity he deserves.
The Canes drafting in the firwst round has been nothing short of aul. svech does not really count, he was such an obvious pick but the rest of the picks since 2010 pretty much has either left or is on the cusp of leving.
The drafting has to improve in the first round. Fortunately the ability to locate true diamonds in later rounds has saved this team collective pork belly.
To me the worst mistakes of the offseason was to dismantle the Checker organization, both coaching staff and players, and so far it is showing in their inconsistent and around or sub 500 play.
Last year we knew our call ups would cme in with a winning attitude and a swagger, I think this year we’re seeing a lot of second guessing and confusion. That being said t’s still early season, there are good guys in charge and such a massive transition inevitably takes time, so the checker may stll turn it around.
The first question is really the important one. First, (with the exception of Bean) they are being treated like players who won’t make it in the NHL. A good comparison to support this opinion, is Necas, who is being treated like he will make it in the NHL. The conundrum isn’t explainable with the information publicly available about these players. We are missing a puzzle piece. Finally, this list of players likely includes the player selected by RF in the Seattle expansion draft.
Would you hold a puzzle piece for two years simply for that purpose?
Yes. Whomever is picked will end up being kept for that purpose. Might as well be something shiny that will catch RF’s eye.
Welcome to the life of a first round draft pick. They will always be given every chance to succeed. The rest have to prove it. Gauthier would have been sent the the ECHL his rookie season if he wasn’t a first round pick.
This must be the day talking about what to do with Fleury.
Sara Civian has a piece in The Athletic on this topic, offering 3 options:
1) Do nothing but start to rotate TvR and Fleury.
2) Trade Fleury.
3) Trade TvR.
https://theathletic.com/1351193/2019/11/05/what-should-the-hurricanes-do-about-haydn-fleury/
Not sure I follow the logic. How is Edmundson exempt but not van Riemsdyk?
Though Edmundson does bring a different, needed element, he is struggling a bit right now whereas van Riemsdyk is a known quantity who has been steady for multiple years. Further, van Riemsdyk is the only right shot of the 3 so he pairs better. Both are free agents this summer, but van Riemdsdyk seems somewhat more likely to stay at a reasonable price. Van Riemsdyk’s 2019-20 salary is lower which theoretically makes for a lower starting point for a next contract too.
Today’s Hockey Buzz rumors link the Canes to the Red Wing’s Athanasiou.
The Wings need defense and their blogger is imagining a trade for Pesce (*sniggers*) but Fleury + a second round for Athanasiou may be doable (though his agent is notorious for holding out and almost being impossible to negotiate with, something our management is not going to like).
In the recent Detroit game, it was hard not to focus on Athanasiou when he was on the ice. Very fast and able to create while at speed. Not as small as I thought either.
Fleury will get his chance here or somewhere else. I don’t think it’s as much that Brind’Amour doesn’t like Fleury as it is he likes van Reimsdyk. I also don’t think the addition of Gardiner was Brind’Amour’s idea. More likely Tulusky. No was Gardiner is Brind’Amour’s kind of player. At this point the coach has no choice but to play Gardiner until he can convince the owner he is exactly what his production says he is, or even less.
I have seen very little that makes me think Bean will ever be a NHL regular. He has the hands, skating and vision, but the rest of his game is a disaster. I’ve seen little improvement. You can’t be that soft and bad in your own zone in the NHL. I don’t think it’s fair to blame the current coach either. Bean is now a grown man. He knows what he needs to improve. I saw no improvement from last year. Scoring a bunch of points in the AHL does not have a strong correlation to being a NHL player. Especially for defensemen.
Gauthier has improved, but he had a long way to go. If he is going to make it in the NHL he is going to have to play HARD. Strong on the puck, strong on the forcheck. If he thinks he’s a NHL scorer he is sadly mistaken. I would say it’s 50/50 he figures it out. No way I would put him on the fourth line until he learns to be a pro all the time. With Svechnikov and Necas the effort has always been there. With Gauthier, not so much.
Goalies in the NHL need a thick skin. Tons of pressure. Ask Scott Darling. If Nedeljkovic is playing poorly because he is down about his situation, that’s a really bad sign at his age. His issue has been consistency, and it appears he hasn’t found it yet. Time is running out.
These kids need to learn no one is going to hold their hand in the NHL. (Unless you are a top pick) If you can’t give it day in and day out you don’t belong there. I can see a learning curve for a teenager, but once they are in their 20s and have had a year or so as a pro it is time that the get with the program or get out.
lts –
The way I interpret RBA on Fleury is the TOI he was getting. Indeed, in TvR’s absence Fleury’s TOI increased to a nearly normal number for a 3rd pairing seeing neither PK or PP time. But his TOI in the last 7D game represented 2 or3 shifts in the third. Was it you yesterday who suggested
Fleury in for Gardiner? I like Fleury. I like how he came into this year. I think there are number of team on which eh would comfortably be on the 3rd pairing. I hope he gets his shot somewhere.
As for Bean he really improved in the AHL last season from season beginning to season end – in both zones. That was his first pro year. By the end of the year he wasn’t just playing better but playing with swagger. That swagger was gone in preseason – and it could be that playing in the d-zone at the NHL level is something that overwhelms him.
I read an article today in The Athletic about cocaine and molly usage in the league. One of the points made was the amount of pressure on the players each and every performance. I think the psychological factors play a real significance for these – like Darling, and maybe Ned. It is the ability to play under pressure and beat what is going on in the head that makes and breaks players – it factors into confidenc. These are players who have been elite throughout their playing careers. In some cases this is their first real adversity – and that has shock value.
In writing this, I am not really disagreeing with you. There is a lot of validity in what you write.
If all players performed to their potential all the time we wouldn’t need coaches and sport psychologists and all that stuff. Yes, I wish players just did perform but there is the durn human factor to reckon with.
I think I would be on top of the world if I got a lot of praise in the media and from my coach and ready for the bit time, but started second guessing my abilities because whenever I thought I was about to get an opportunity with money and visibility someone else was hired from the outside instead.
Yes, mental toughness is essential for a pro player but good coaches find a way to motivate and manage their players, and I think the combination of coaches and management have dropped the ball when it comes to Fleury and Ned especially (they’ve done well with a lot of guys, though I think they’ve overvalued guys like Mcginn.
Fleury only got more time today because RBA went back to his 7 D men scheme that has proven pretty ineffective on the west coast trip (and proved equally ineffective tonight).
I hope either Hala draws back in Thursday or they call up Geekie or Lawrence to see what they can do.
The 11/7 scheme isn’t working.