Earlier this week, Don Waddell was mentioned as a possible candidate for the recently opened Minnesota Wild General Manager position. That news notched up significantly today when it was reported that Don Waddell had interviewed in person for the job. Today’s news woke up those who work the Canes hockey beat from a summer slumber which has yielded a batch of interviews and quotes but in my opinion not a ton in terms of clarity as to what is going on.
Today’s Daily Cup of Joe addresses this topic from a couple different angles.
As a starting point, I would also read (if you have access) the two articles that followed today from the local beat.
Sara Civian at The Athletic wrote THIS. (subscription required)
To try to put some organization to a somewhat stream of conscious post, I will work from general to more specific.
Briefly recapping the what is known/reported about the actual situation
Hockey contracts generally run yearly and end on June 30, so on June 30 Don Waddell’s contract officially ending, and I guess in theory he became a free agent. All indications are that nothing changed on July 1. He has seeming been active and involved as the team has made additional moves, and his name still regularly appears in the press releases. At least everything available publicly would suggest that in terms of what he does on a daily basis as a Hurricanes employee nothing has changed. That would seem to suggest that he is being paid or expects to be paid for his work and would also seem to suggest that the role will continue into the future.
Then on Monday with the Wild needing to hire a replacement general manager, Don Waddell’s name oddly came up as a candidate. Then things escalated on Tuesday when The Athletic reported that he actually did an in person interview. Then on top of that came all of Dundon’s comments on the situation in the News & Observer article.
Just more of the new (ab?) normal
At the most basic way, the Carolina Hurricanes under Tom Dundon have been in many ways unorthodox. At the very beginning, he was very hands on with marketing, promotions and even finer details of the in arena product. He followed that up by parting ways with General Manager Ron Francis when he did not fit the committee type approach to managing the team. And from the very beginning, Dundon has played an active role on the hockey management side of the house too. The ‘breaking the mold’, ‘forging our own path’ approach has permeated every aspect of the organization. Worth noting is that the first move on the hockey side that was every bit Dundon’s doing was hiring an inexperienced Rod Brind’Amour to be the team’s bench boss. So at the most basic level, the Don Waddell situation does not stray that far from the new normal that ignores the book and is reasonably consistently unorthodox. One thing that is becoming increasingly certain is that Canes fans should become accustomed to regular doses of unorthodox.
What is the situation exactly then?
That is still a bit murky, but per what I said above, it seems to be this. Don Waddell is still working for the Hurricanes in his regular role on a daily basis as of right now, but he still does not have a contract for the upcoming season. Dundon gave his blessing for Waddell to interview, so though there definitely may be some negotiating and gamesmanship going on right now, I do not think it makes sense to declare that there is certainly some rift between the two.
Specifically on Don Waddell and his role
When the decision was announced, I was not incredibly high on what I considered to be a ‘do nothing’ decision to go with the existing group in what at least initially was deemed a general manager by committee. But evaluating Waddell and the structure in general based solely on results, I do not see how anyone could give them anything but high marks. The turnover last summer was significant. Waddell managed to unload Marcus Kruger and net Jordan Martinook who played a sizable role in developing a new culture. Waddell also revamped a blue line that was promising but slow arriving when he added Calvin de Haan via free agency and then made a blockbuster to acquire Dougie Hamilton and Micheal Ferland in exchange for Elias Lindholm and Noah Hanifin. The team also added reinforcements in net in Petr Mrazek and made the tough decision to part ways with Jeff Skinner. The process was messy and imperfect, but the result was a significantly revamped roster with a new head coach and a new captain. Waddell put a cherry on top when he somehow brokered a deal to send Victor Rask to Minnesota for Nino Niederreiter. And in a results business, the moves worked. I chalk playoff success up somewhat to the wonderful randomness that NHL playoff hockey is, but the push up into the playoffs was a huge win for the 2018-19 season to put a stake in the sand, change the culture and mentality and forge forward in a new way. There are obviously many contributors to that success, but I think Don Waddell deserves a sizable chunk of it for his role.
So the team was successful and is headed in the right direction, and Don Waddell deserves a good amount of credit for that situation. It would seem to be a no-brainer that he would continue in that role for the foreseeable future.
Despite have mixed feelings that leaned negative on the initial decision to go with a committee, I would without hesitation continue with Waddell in the general manager role. I lean ‘if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it’, and the 2018-19 season was an overwhelming success with Waddell’s fingerprints all over it.
…and maybe that is exactly what is happening
Right now, it hard to sort out how much of what is going on is simply unorthodox process versus a legitimate problem. (One could also write a full analysis of the intermingling of those two things.) But up until the point where Waddell were to leave, I think it is fair to write this off as more of the unorthodox in terms of how Tom Dundon runs a hockey business. One could reasonably assume that if Dundon and Waddell were in 100 percent agreement on what Waddell’s terms should be going forward, something would already be signed. Is Waddell asking for a two or three-year contract based on his success in 2018-19? Especially with a lockout looming in 2020-21, that could be significant. Does Waddell maybe want a raise based on his performance and the fact that he is still sort of doing two jobs? One thing we do not have is any concrete information on what has been discussed between Dundon and Waddell, so anything in that regard would be speculation.
Part of a concerning trend?
One thing that comes into play especially if Waddell does depart is the volume of departures since Dundon bought the team. Ron Francis was obviously a decision made by Dundon for reasons, but just this summer the team has seen Goalie Coach Mike Bales, Assistant General Manager and Charlotte Checkers Head Coach Mike Vellucci, Assistant General Manager Brian Tatum and a couple scouts leave. Of significance is that the management departures were not for promotions but rather were sideways moves. If Waddell were to depart for Minnesota, that would be the biggest yet in terms of key management leaving just to take the same job somewhere else. But with the Waddell situation to the side, I think this situation is murkier than some think. When new ownership/management takes over a company, it is normal for there to be a significant amount of transition as people with ties and sometimes loyalty to the old guard depart and as the new regime puts some of its own people in place. I think I would feel better about the situation if the team proves able to attract some talent from outside the organization, but more generally I am sort of in wait and see mode on this trend and open to the possibility that only about 18 months into Dundon’s ownership and only in the second off-season that the personnel transition is still in process.
A conspiracy theory
As noted above, there is not much for information on what Dundon and Waddell have discussed or negotiated. If Waddell was just looking to sign up for another year maybe just with a modest raise for performance, my thinking is that this would already be done. So the fact that the situation is what it is right now suggests that there is likely some disconnect between Dundon and Waddell. That is not to say that it is a contentious situation.
Again, this is not based on anything being said/reported from any of the parties, but here is my wild speculation…
I think Dundon’s long-term plan is for Eric Tulsky to be the general manager. In fits and spurts and with some struggles along the way, I think the NHL is slowly going that direction anyway. The Maple Leafs and Coyotes have appointed general managers who though they do come from a longer hockey pedigree are more futuristic in terms of shifting to more an analytical approach to building an NHL hockey team to be successful in 2020 and beyond. With his unorthodox, ‘break the mold’ type of approach is there another NHL owner even remotely as likely to be the first put an analytically-leaning professional in a general manager role?
If one takes that to be plausible, it could definitely impact the relationship and role for Waddell. He serves three purposes. First is to play a part (as noted he did that well for 2018-19) in building a winning hockey team. But second is to help Tulsky get up to speed on a role and a business with a ton of moving parts. The ‘committee’ approach that has multiple people at the table, including Tulsky, is perfect for that. Post-transition, Waddell could still have a role as President likely with more emphasis on the business side but also the possibility of some engagement on the hockey side since the committee approach is accommodating for that.
The schedule for such a move is unclear. Based on the fact that the team waded this deep into the off-season would suggest that the plan (at least the original one) was not to make that transition soon. But at the same time, Dundon could prefer a shorter commitment and/or more flexibility with Waddell’s contract and role. If Waddell enjoyed his return to the hockey side after many years away and also feels emboldened by the 2018-19 results, asking for a three-year contract would not be outlandish. But if Dundon’s ultimate plan is as noted above, such a request could cause a gap between Dundon and Waddell that is much larger than things appear at first glance.
The myth of a whimsical Dundon
Because his approach is unorthodox and does not match how the hockey men think things should always work, I think his actions are sometimes incorrectly characterized as random. While there does seem to be an instinctual part of Dundon’s decision-making to think that a businessman with his level of success does not have a plan or a reason for certain actions seems naive. If my speculation about a long-term path to Tulsky is correct, Dundon’s seemingly odd ’employment at will’ and ‘doesn’t like contracts’ verbiage could well be a smoke screen that steers around a confrontation with Waddell. Dundon did sign Brind’Amour for two years when maybe he could have pushed for a one-year trial with the rookie coach. And remember that the Aho situation came about largely because the team wanted a maximum eight-year deal. So if Dundon’s approach is to go year to year with Waddell because of a longer-term plan, doing so in a way that neatly categorizes as ‘just more unorthodox’ steers around a negotiating confrontation that could occur if Dundon pushed too hard specifically for one year and would not budge.
Early returns
I touched on it really briefly above, but some seem to be short-sighted whenever a mini-storm pops up. The sample size is small, but the results are incredibly good so far under Tom Dundon and also the current management structure. Though there is always some random luck to sports success, I think there are a couple unmistakable wins so far. First is the decision to hire Rod Brind’Amour despite his inexperience. Success in the long run is not a sure thing based on a successful first season, but I think the change being effected right now in terms of attitude and culture is a much-needed step in the right direction. I also think the dramatic changes in terms of how the team interacts with the fan base are substantial and meaningful. No doubt, winning and playoffs boost attendance and energy, but those with a good memory will duly note that the fun vibe and closer contact with the community preceded the winning.
I think in trying to break the mold and do things differently from how everyone else is doing it will inevitably come with some errors. And the hockey good old boys network will rain down criticism and derision each and every time it happens or even looks like it might happen. But if the gains outweigh the losses and more significantly the results continue to be there, it will be three steps forward one step back. And based on the fact that the team took the three steps forward in 2018-19 arguably without the one step back, I think the fan base needs to give Dundon and the management the benefit of the doubt much more than the broader hockey world will.
The local media
As an aside on the state of our hockey market, it was reports out of Minnesota jolted the local Hurricanes beat reports awake from an off-season slumber, but in reality this is something that should have received attention in the form of questions back in mid-July, Once the dust settled on busy season for the other hockey dealings, this should have been on the radar and newsworthy enough to at least garner a few questions and an update. The arrival of The Athletic with Sara Civian has helped, and if it is extended, winning will also boost local and other coverage. But the coverage locally again proved to be more reactionary than truly on top of it.
What say you Canes fans?
1) What are your thoughts on the Don Waddell situation?
2) What do you make of my conspiracy theory? Could there be something to it and a method to the madness? Or do you consider it to be the wild musings of a starving Caniac who is just trying too hard with even the slightest bit of real news in the middle of the August desert of the NHL off-season?
Go Canes!
First, as long as Waddell does not have a contract with the Canes, it is appropriate for him to look after his future by exploring other opportunities IMO. This is reinforced by Dundon’s seeming approval and encouragement that he look into the Minnesota job.
Second, what’s the risk and gain to the Canes and/or Waddell letting him interview with Minnesota. For Waddell the gain would appear to possibly be only a financial and work load one being a hefty raise in salary with maybe only having to be the GM OR President, but not both to earn his pay. Also he might secure a longer term deal which gives him some added security. If Minnesota offered him these advantages, Waddell would probably rely this info to Dundon to match or better and go from there.
What’s the risk to Dundon. None at this point IMO unless Minnesota makes a great offer and puts a strict (one day or less for example) deadline for an answer from Waddell regarding acceptance of their offer. Then Waddell might under pressure accept without Dundon even getting a chance to negotiate with Waddell. Or Waddell might have to go to Dundon in a position of really giving him what might appear to him to be an ultimatum (because of Minnesota’s needing an immediate answer) in which case Dundon might take offense and say “sayonara” to Waddell.
One other factor that needs to be looked at in this situation is the current status of the Minnesota ownership/management team Waddell would have to work with and the current status of the on-ice team. He would have to gauge whether there is any chance of turning that franchise around or not. The more risk that he felt there was that it might not be a short term possibility, the more money and term Waddell might need to go to Minnesota versus taking less term and/or less money to stay with the Canes that appear right now to be in much better shape as a franchise than Minnesota.
Just my thoughts. I’m more interested in ct’s, raleightj’s, puckgod’s, lessthan…s, avids, breezy’s, and all the other’s ideas and opinions.
Regarding the conspiracy theory. It could be that Dundon wants to rely more on analytics than Waddell is comfortable with and thus he would be happy if Waddell left. There could be a number of reasons for what is IMO and as you have stated an unorthodox kind of situation. I don’t think the Bales and Vellucci moves have any relationship to Waddell’s situation at all. Bales went for a fulltime coaching position and Vellucci probably saw Brindamoor’s success and realized there wasn’t going to be any immediate chance to be an NHL head coach here in Raleigh.
This is really an interesting development. And also seems to be completely unnecessary drama.
First, we should assume that if Dundon wanted Waddell under contract, he would be under contract. He is not.
So then the answer is why? The “conspiracy theory – or long term plan – would likely include some combination of people under contract, like Tulsky RBA and perhaps others. The insiders have been quiet concerning potential outside hires.
One possibility not explored so far has to do with egos. I will document that possibility here without advocating, just as a thought experiment. The last time I remember the ego model dominating was the Jimmy Johnson – Jerry Jones situation with the Dallas Cowboys. The Cowboys developed a bit of a dynasty with Jonson coaching and Jones the owner, seemingly a perfect pairing. Long-time friends and associates.
But then when success happened, the world credited Coach Johnson and not owner Jones. So Jones got rid of Johnson, to prove he could win with any coach. And overnight the dynasty was done.
Now, a run to the conference finals does not make a dynasty, by any stretch of the imagination. But at the same time, Waddell is nominated for GM of the year while Dundon is positioned in the hockey press as a broke Dufus who won’t pay his star player Aho. The situation is ripe for the owner to show the world that he was always the brains of the operation and he can win with anybody.
I hope that isn’t the case – we have the Dallas Cowboys as a case study. So far every speculation that Dundon is in over his head has been wrong, so there is no evidence to support the ego theory. If there is a screw up here, the obvious example is having star player end up with a five year contract instead of eight. That is the lone blemish on the management by committee results so far.
1) Waddell stated shortly after the season that he was “GM for life” according to Dundon. Somehow what is being said is not consistent with what is being done.
2) I am a bigger fan of analytics than most, so Tulsky in charge would be a good thing.
However, where you seem to be most off track is about the myth. You are correct that Dundon is not whimsical. But his “level of success” is given way too much value without context. He started his business career in a business where the customer has options and discretionary income (restaurants). That business went bankrupt. His most recent business venture (a football league) went bankrupt. TopGolf is a good business model.
However, I take it when you mention “business success” you are talking about the auto loan company. That business was termed “predatory” by a state’s attorney’s general office and eventually paid an 8-figure fine for obvious violations of rules that protect military personnel—think about that next time the Canes have military appreciation night. (My spouse was in the military and I saw first hand how the base was surrounded by payday loan offices and pawn shops—so I admit to a personal bias.)
My point is that while Dundon made tons of money his track record is mixed at best and his success was driven by taking advantage of his customers. For me the real myth is that he is somehow smarter than all the other owners/management in the NHL. For instance, you mentioned hiring RBA. That can be seen as really smart or as hiring the coach who was willing to take the lowest salary for an opportunity. In light of how Kaiton was handled (would one more year for a final tour have broken the bank?), the second explanation seems more reasonable.
I want the Canes to succeed as much as anyone reading these comments. However, I believe that attributing success to Dundon’s business savvy is motivated reasoning of an extreme sort.
One final note, I think Justin Williams situation is another example of trying to underpay. I hope I am wrong and Williams gets the 1-year, $4M deal he earned last season.
You lost me on “a businessman with his level of success”. TD came up with a way to legally steal from the poor (“retail installment sales contracts, or RIC,” for car purchases)and then sold his business to a foreign bank (Santander) “one step ahead of the jailer” (obtuse Jimmy Buffett reference_ – to the regulators getting involved per ct – and they are still involved).
https://jalopnik.com/the-devastating-loophole-that-sticks-car-buyers-with-in-1823885194
Let’s not praise this man’s business acumen.
This really isn’t that difficult. It’s about money. Dundon’s quotes in the N&O lay it out. “I’m not going to pay what other guy’s pay GMs” If you listen around the league that line of thought applies to the entire coaching staff. It is why Smith, Vellucci, Bailes, and Tatum left as well. Vellucci isn’t in a better situation in Wilkes-Barre. Pittsburgh coach just signed big extension and Wilkes-Barre? Not known as a great place to live. Vellucci made the move to avoid the pay cut Dundon would have required as his contract was created under the Francis/Karmanos regime. Dundon doesn’t pay, and the differences are significant. The reality is he doesn’t think coaches/executives are worth it. He uses a committee and feels he can always find younger, cheaper people instead of paying top dollar to recycle the same old “experienced” coaches/executives. I think it will eventually bite him in the behind, but we will see.
Side note: I really dislike the N&O/DeCock’s method of constantly trying to stir the pot. His title referring to front office “dysfunction” is garbage. This is how Dundon operates. It is totally functional to him. DeCock just wants to stir up the masses for more clicks on his bad hockey takes.
Usually the paper’s editors write the headline.
lessthan…, I essentially agree with your take on this. Even if all this is caused by Dundon’s reluctance to pay according to established league levels, who’s to say he can’t get just as good management performance from younger cheaper management talent. Sure, that’s scary to us hockey fans, but the evidence of this past off season around the league shows that a lot of “old time hockey people” have screwed up in their management roles.
Whatever direction Dundon takes, I like your “…but we will see.” as the appropriate answer right now.
As in every business, you have to always ask yourself what your product is and what is the best way to deliver it.
Who said that? No. Not Phineas Taylor Barnum. Yes. He is a billionaire. Yes, he is a regular on a TV show. As many people hate him as do love him. No. Not Donald Trump. He is a major league sports franchise owner as well as a good friend and mentor to Tommy Dundon.
That’s right. You guessed it. Mark Cuban.
So why would Tommy want to ask himself what his product is? A hockey team that is a legitimate Stanley Cup Contender. Right?
Hint: Cuban is always refusing to consider marketing ideas for an app that engages the hockey fan audience in real game time. He says he doesn’t want them looking down during the game. He wants them looking up.
Okay. So if the product is not a legitimate Stanley Cup Contender, what is it?
It is the overall fan experience.
As a longtime purchaser of season tickets to view my beloved Canes, I have not had a really great fan experience since 2006. At times, it seemed that Jimmy R and Mr. K were trying to drive me away. Maybe they were (ala the showgirl owner of the Cleveland Indians in the movie Major League).
How’s that for a conspiracy theory?
But since Tommy took the reins, my fan experience has changed.
Subtly, things are changing for STMs as well as individual ticket buyers.
I could go on and on about ribeye steak sandwiches and vastly improved usher services. But allow me to address the matter at hand.
Have you noticed the higher profile my beloved Canes now have in the NHL? No. It isn’t the Seabass or Turbo. It’s Don Cherry calling us a bunch of jerks on national Canadian TV.
Did Montreal really try to ambush us with the offer sheet for Fishy? It certainly livened things up for me. It took me out of the doldrums I am normally in this time of year. The timing of the signing of the new acquisitions was perfect for me as well.
And now this. I am sure that the Minnesota fans were melting tar and plucking every bird they could find when they heard Chiarelli was being interviewed for the GM job. Was this a
gesture on the part of Tommy? Will we have to give up Donny at the very last minute in final payment for the Nino trade?
A name I haven’t heard since he signed on shortly after Donny did here, is Rick Dudley.
Interesting.
No, boys and girls. Tulsky is not going to be our new GM. When Mr. Viola decided to go with analytics, it was a disaster for the Panthers. Kyle Dubas has the Leafs in a real mess.
No. Tommy will always do what is best to enhance the fan experience.
I don’t know about the rest of you, but I am having a lot of fun.
Wow pwrless, right on!
Hey, maybe Willy is the GM in the wings. Who better to work with RBA?
First, I don’t put much credence in the concept of the “committee”. Most certainly there are discussions about players, team directions, etc. But I believe that Waddell is acting more like a true GM than simply the voice of a committee. He is the outward facing actor – he was the one on the phone with Fenton orchestrating the Rask/Nino trade.
And losing DW would be a major loss – one that cannot be effectively backfilled from within the organization, nor can it filled from outside – as the exercise in hiring a GM last summer indicated.
I don’t think this is a search for leverage on the part of DW. I think he knows what he is going to get from TD – and his original contract as president was signed with Karmanos, so possibly TD is even telling him he can expect a decrease in pay – just speculation. So if he gets offered a better deal with the Wild he is going to take it.
Of the candidates for the Wild job that I have heard of Waddell seems to stand head and shoulder over all of them, particularly given the mess the Wild finds themselves in. I think DW would be the ideal person to step into the GM role and start to affect major changes. That said, he could also view the situation as too much of a mess and wouldnt want to sully the reputation he has earned in the game. Someone who is an AGM may be more willing to step into the role regardless of the level of difficulty associated with it.
Waddell didn’t orchestrate the Nino/Rask deal. He answered the phone and probably spit out his drink when he heard Fenton’s request.
I like what Waddell has done, but Waddell is just part of the committee that advises Dundon who makes all personnel decisions. Why would Dundon want to pay for just an advisor?
That is not what happened. Fenton and Waddell had been talking for quite a while about making a deal that would include those two players as well as others, but finally settled on just the two. I am sure Waddell consulted with his team and I am sure he ran the concept past TD but he acted in the role of a full GM.
Our sources tell different stories.
I am only referencing what Waddell himself said.
Isn’t all of this drama and mystery fun at what is usually the most dull and quiet time of year for hockey fans? I think so.
Thanks Tommy.
I’ve read all of the above (including my own cr-p). Any one of the above could be right on about what’s going on and what the final shakeout will be from the different scenarios offered. Really fun conversation from everyone.
I am just going to wait and see on this one.
TD has provided plenty of rguments for the cheapskate accusers (me among them) but he’s also made moves that contradict those arguments (the team is close to the salary cap, though not necessarily the spend).
We’re all riding a bit high on last year’s success, which was created through hard work by all, but also had some magical fairy dust component that we can’t rely on every year.
But the “game antics” were totally awesome and the fan experience was vastly improved, that can’t be denied (and it shouldn’t be).
I am a bit concerned by the exotus of the coaching and management team that made us successful is choosing to leave, just when we, the fans, thought it was time to take a good thing to the next level.
The Wild are an ugly mess and far less likely to hoist the cup than the Canes over the next 2 or 3 years at least, ditto the Pens.
but I’m willing to just hang out and see how things develoep. Maybe there is an evil masterplan in place to make the canes even better.
You probably noticed that an old buddy of ours Patt Dwyer has been hired as the assistant coach in Clt, maybe JW is going to be the new GM after all, maybe TD can get more value out of him by having him as both a GM and a player.
In slightly related news, the Canes signed Forsberg on a one-way $775K deal (after arbitration). This probably calls for a new goalie situation blog.
This post may be a little controversial …
I don’t really have a problem with GMDW not being under contract; I’m not sure it’s really that big of a deal – except this is hockey, and the Summer, and this kind of thing happened in full view of the public.
From my experience in the larger business world, it is not uncommon at all – in fact it is quite normal – that senior executives are not employed under a contract. It seems to be a quirk of the sports world that Managers (coaches and GM’s) have contracts just like the players do; but I can only think of one reason why that is: severance. (There may be others, but this seems to be the big one.)
The players must have contracts because labor unions and the general rules under which sports are governed require contracts, but no such rules apply to Managers. The reality is that few managers actually survive the length of their contracts anyway so the only real issue seems to be severance, which can easily be handled under a simple Offer Letter. Other than that, contracts are fairly meaningless for Managers like GMDW.
My point is that contracts are the exception in business rather than the rule, and in every other of TD’s businesses, whether as primary owner or as an investor, I’d bet few if any senior execs have contracts. From his perspective, the GMDW situation is normal, especially in his role as President.
I happen to believe TD when he says that he encouraged GMDW pursue any opportunity that’s in his interest – because that’s also very normal in TD’s world and it’s what great managers do. No good manager at TD’s level (or at any level, really) wants someone on his team that wants to be somewhere else or is generally unhappy whether he’s under contract or not. That only leads to a team functioning at a lower level. If GMDW isn’t happy, for whatever reason, it’s in TD’s interest to figure out how to solve that problem or the performance of the team will suffer.
I believe great managers help people achieve their personal goals, and I know that people become more loyal to managers who genuinely want what’s best for them whether within their current organization or outside of it. I’ve seen that in action and know it to be true.
For all the negative things people say about TD, he acts like a very confident manager who is open and direct and I’m not surprised that he’s built other teams that have become successful. He’s just taking those things he know works to a new organization – the Hurricanes.
It’s obvious that his management style is unconventional in hockey circles. Hockey teams (and all other teams in all other leagues) seem to have been managed the same way forever. Maybe there’s a reason for that but maybe it’s an opportunity ripe for disruption. I think we’re seeing the latter play out now in Raleigh under TD.
I don’t really believe GMDW wants to leave now. It makes no sense. He joined the team when it was at rock bottom and if he squints hard he can see the Promised Land in the distance. Unless there were serious personality issues getting in the way, he has a very enviable situation and has every reason to stay. Money may be a factor in his decision, but, again, from my personal experience, money can be a driver but isn’t usually the primary driver for most people’s employment decisions. I doubt it is for GMDW if he thinks he’s being treated fairly. Most people don’t leave solely because of money; there is almost always something else going on.
The hockey world is getting all uppity by this because the way TD manages the team is unusual for hockey, but this kind of thing is quite normal in the general world. It’ll work out one way or the other, but whichever way it works out, it’ll probably be for the best for both parties even if it’s a surprise to those of us on the outside.
I hope GMDW stays because it seems like he’s been responsible for a lot of great work. Who knows how true that really is. I’d prefer not to find out.
Two things.
As I understand it, teams have to have a GM signed by the end of this month. I read that today and cannot yet vouch for it’s accuracy but, if true, NHL teams are different than other businesses.
Second, money may not be a prime driver but if the salary is 2-3x what you are currently making I think that swings the pendulum a lot.
People also leave for more authority – something he may find in another organization.
I hope Waddell stays – I think he is excellent. And I am not saying that there is not a reasonable basis for what you are saying. But I can see a lot of reasons for him choosing to leave.
According to Adam Gold, it’s a league requirement to have GM’s under contract.
Thanks, dmilleravid. Well stated. You make a lot of sense.
To all of you who said these are exciting times, I’m with you. The single most obvious thing that Tom Dundon has affected is keeping the heretofore “after thought” Hurricanes in the news. Kudos for that.
Sure some of the news has been less than flattering, but maybe that’s just looking at it through traditionalist’s eyes. Getting hammered on the Skinner trade, getting second-guessed on the Lindholm/Hanifin trade, the Ron Francis firing, the ill-fated GM search, the hiring of Don Waddell as GM, etc. All of these moves were roundly criticized by the hockey cognoscenti.
Then, the team went to the Eastern Conference Finals, beating the reigning Cup champs along the way. Still, as is evidenced by our lone nationally broadcast game, the team…no, the organization, still lacks respect. Hopefully, that chip on the front office’s collective shoulders continues to motivate.
Tom Dundon, whether you like how he made his fortune or not, ran an exceptionally effective business, fines notwithstanding. He sold the business at its peak for billions. He built a country club that hosted a PGA tour event. He’s the lead investor in one of the hottest entertainment concepts in recent memory, TopGolf. He’s a savvy real estate investor in Dallas and Aspen. Less known is his significant investment in Carvana. Simply put, the dude’s got a pretty solid business mind. Doing things differently with the management of the Hurricanes is fine, given his track record.
The GM by committee (GMBC) is real, but it doesn’t operate as a consensus building exercise. Somewhere Dundon or Waddell talked about how the key point was that the GM synthesized the input of the management team and used that input to make better decisions. If he went against the evidence, he was supposed to provide validation for that decision. But in the end, it was the GM’s call. Brind’Amour, Krepelka, Dudley, Tulsky, Yorke, and Waddell, along with Dundon seem to be the primary members of this “borg”. Make no mistake, RBA has a significant voice in player personnel decisions.
Almost to a man, all of the front office and coaching losses were guys from the previous era. Vellucci, in particular, was a goner as soon as he didn’t get the head coaching job. By the way, he didn’t leave because he was getting a pay cut. His contract was up and he wanted a significant raise, but he wasn’t staying to be the coach of the Checkers. My guess is he’s the front-runner to replace Jim Rutherford upon his retirement (he was our AGM and has GM experience in the CHL). Bales left with a year left on his contract because of his pre-existing relationship with Jason Botteril. The scouts didn’t leave, they retired. Tatum left the industry…and so forth. Matt has the right of this, new ownership ALWAYS brings significant management change.
All this is to say that the Canes have assembled a team of experts that helps Waddell (and/or his potential successor) in his efforts. And perhaps therein lies the rub. Waddell is both President, overseeing the business side of the Hurricanes, as well as GM, overseeing the “team” side of things. He likely wants to be compensated for both roles. Dundon admits to seeing diminished value in the traditional GM role and doesn’t pay “league average” for it. It would make sense for Waddell to want to focus on one or the other priorities….unless he’s compensated accordingly.
In the end, I don’t subscribe to any conspiracy theories and agree with the comments about modern management theory and practice. Tom Dundon publicly gave Waddell his blessing to see if there was a better situation out there for him and his family. My sense is that Waddell isn’t looking at this as leverage, but truly understanding what options there are. That’s the best way to understand your market value.
We’ve got a good team going into next season and a cupboard filled with solid to excellent prospects. There are very few teams as well positioned for the future as are the Hurricanes. If Waddell leaves knowing that, then I’d question his decision-making acumen.
You wrote, “Tom Dundon, whether you like how he made his fortune or not, ran an exceptionally effective business, fines notwithstanding. He sold the business at its peak for billions. He built a country club that hosted a PGA tour event. He’s the lead investor in one of the hottest entertainment concepts in recent memory, TopGolf. He’s a savvy real estate investor in Dallas and Aspen. Less known is his significant investment in Carvana. Simply put, the dude’s got a pretty solid business mind.”.
He made his money by cheating working people out of theirs. No, I don’t like that.
Cuban and Karmanos made their money by delivering value to their customers. TD made his money doing the opposite.
And in TopGolf, Carvana, and real estate he is an investor – a man with a lot of money making his money available to others. He is not managing businesses or running businesses or making business decisions in any of that. He is simply the money-man. And that is what you do when you have more money than you know what to do with. That and buy sports teams.
Other than that I am fine with what you say. 🙂
I’m not going to argue the point about sub-prime car loans, but you’re generalizing when you say he cheated everybody. There are many, many stories of people who couldn’t get credit any other way, paid off their loans, and had cars to get them to work….but, like I said, I’m not expert in the auto lending world.
Dundon Capital Partners is an active board participant in all of their investments. They don’t just see the opportunity, they actively participate in ongoing management. Anybody who has ever gone in front of a start-up’s board of directors understands just how active from both a strategic and tactical standpoint these investors/board members are.
Regardless of what you think of the guy, he’s been successful in a variety of businesses and is bringing change to the Canes front office….change that appears to be working.
This is part of what I wrote in the comments section in a related article:
“Just spit-balling here, but when Waddell took the job last year (going from “interim” to “official”), the Canes had been looking for a GM for a while. At the time, it appeared naming Waddell the GM was a sort of stop gap measure to address an immediate need for the moment. On the surface, the impression was that it was to be temporary, and not much else. At no point did it seem that Waddell was gunning for the job himself.
There was no shortage of fans who were a bit uneasy and nervous about it. There were plenty falling down the rabbit hole of doom and gloom. Then the trades – Hannfin and Lindholm to Calgary, Skinner to Buffalo, and a seemingly benign trade for some Martinook guy that few knew much about at the time.
Then there were the screams that Dundon is cheap, wants to move the franchise, and has enlisted Waddell in his dastardly plans.
What a difference a year makes!
The spitball: Waddell is still acting as the GM, even without a contract. Until there is a contract or comment from either Dundon and or Waddell, the WHY can only be answered via speculation for now. It could be that a succession plan was in the mix all along, or discussions on a new “financial” arrangement is ongoing but not really revealed publicly.
Needless to say, Waddell has many more fans in Carolina than he did this time last year.”
That said, I have heard or seen other posts regarding Eric Tulsky. There could be something to this. In my opinion, however, it would be too soon. Either way, Tulsky would need a good supporting cast around him, and that is where the GM by committee (GMBC) would be a key necessity. Not all former hockey greats are sure successes as a GM or bench boss. Likewise, not all good to great GMs or head coaches were past hockey stars.
IF a succession plan is in place, I would like to see it put off for a few more years, and Waddell spend another year or two in the big office. There would be much to learn for in-house proteges (similar to the need to have Justin Williams around for at least another year… Come on JWill… Give us another year or two!).
1st off,I don’t know enough about GM SALARIES, nor the REAL differences between one team and the rest of them. That said, I would assume that most people in Waddell’s position would listen to any job offers, out of curiosity and adding to their knowledge of another team.
I have changed my overall impression of him, quite a lot, and believe he has (in concert with the rest of the “committee”) FAR EXCEEDED my expectations!
Dundon may be a hard negotiator, but I doubt he would fire someone w/o having a very suitable replacement.
Most likely the situation is much ado about nothing.
Two other things…Dudley is well known for his evaluation of players! I heard Burke talk about this on the NHL Network, and the rest of the committee seems to have their areas of expertise.
Lastly, I will be quite surprised if Williams fails to return for one more year!
Adam Gold has a very definite opinion on this:
https://www.wralsportsfan.com/gold-waddell-situation-part-of-larger-canes-story/18556631/
(heads up, it is not in favor of TD)
I err on the side of the Gold man though I sincerely hope he can be proven wrong.
I did not realize that the Forslund situation went down to the wire.
And, honestly, why did our Calder cup winning coach/assistant GM leave, the goalie coach etc. etc.
Well, the proof is in the pudding TD, do you have a brilliant plan in place or are you so busy being a hardball negotiator that you end up driving away all the people who made the magic happen last year.
There is only one way to prove things one way or the other, that is the on ice performance of the team.
Like it or not Dundon has a method. He gets people he considers smart around him, listens to what they have to say, and makes a decision. That’s how he’s running the Canes. Dundon makes the decisions. He is the Jerry Jones of the NHL. As long as there are smart hockey people around him it will probably work to some extent. The problem is Dundon won’t pay coaches, executives, scouts, etc. the going rate in the NHL. Most of them will leave given the opportunity. Dundon thinks there is plenty of hockey minds out there willing to take less to be part of a NHL team. He may be right. Time will tell.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see Forslund hired in Seattle in a year or so.
Gee, I wish I could write things, unsupported by actual facts or evidence, for a local media publication. Adam Gold has taken up the Luck DeCock anti-Hurricanes management banner. He conveniently leaves out that Tom Dundon has invested heavily in improving the fan experience. Look around the Triangle and you’ll see significantly more Canes branding and advertising. The organization is adding to its investment in local youth hockey. For goodness sake, we’re $2.5 million from the top of the salary cap…but you be you Adam, implying that Dundon is somehow cheap. Are you getting your story outlines from the traditional Canadian hockey media?
Last year at this time many lamented the naming of Don Waddell as GM. Oh, woe is me…the Skinner trade…blah, blah, something, something. Look, I’m not saying Dundon can do no wrong, but for those of us that lived through the Karmanos era, he’s a freaking breath of fresh air.
By all accounts the Aho negotiations were nothing but cordial. Aho freely admits he wanted to be a long-term Hurricane and he leveraged his only option provided by the CBA to get a deal done sooner rather than later – the offer sheet. There was NO WAY he was signing an 8 or even 7 year deal. Sure, maybe if we continued to hammer away at him over the summer we could have gotten an extra year. By his own admission he wanted to get a deal done so he could enjoy his Summer. Anybody who doesn’t realize that Marc Bergevin served as a pawn to Aho and his agent is being naive.
Speaking of fee agency, which of those other big name RFAs are signed? None….and guess what, they are all going to end up signed but with a lot more tumult and probably for a lot less money than they want…but back to Don Waddell. Dundon has said, if he wants a contract he’ll give him one. Waddell has said he doesn’t want to go anywhere else. To me, this is a wonderful media blitz keeping the Hurricanes front and center of the hockey conversation.
Keep digging for reasons to stir up controversy Adam and Luke…it is only helping the organization.
What investment in youth hockey? Allowing them to use the brand is not an investment.
Dundon was owned in the Aho negotiations. Yes, the pay for Aho was fair, but Aho’s agent got everything else. 5 year deal is exactly what Aho wanted. Will be FA at 27. Canes wanted and extra year or two. Nope. Offer sheet blew that up. Aho’s salary is the bare minimum. The rest is signing bonuses that must be paid in the summer. If the NHL locks out the players Aho will get his cash. Not what Dundon would have wanted. Aho’s agent: 2 Dundon: 0
You can love Dundon all you want, but he is doing things in an odd way. Underpaying staff is shitty when you are a billionaire. His way may work, but it doesn’t make him much of a good guy to me. I hope an owner is a class act for the teams I root for. I’m not seeing that here.
The only thing the Hurricanes didn’t get in the Aho negotiations was an extra year. Based on what Aho and his agent said, he wasn’t budging off of his 5 year ask. Aho’s salary is more than just “fair”; it’s a steal. The team easily would have been willing to pay upwards of $10 million a year. The numbers that I heard floated around were anywhere from $9 million to $10.5 million. Aho essentially admitted that he opted for a contract that he knew the Hurricanes would match. Sebastian didn’t want to spend his Summer negotiating, something he highlighted in his comments post offer sheet. Finally, the idea that you have to “win” a negotiation is why every other major RFA remains unsigned.
Despite what you might think, I don’t love Tom Dundon, but I respect his business acumen. I respect that he doesn’t just hew to the traditional hockey way of doing things. We saw how well that worked out for the last decade. You may see him as underpaying staff, but what I see is him increasing overall payroll, adding important staff (scouting, analytics, etc.).
They’ve dramatically increased investment in the First Goal program which targets youth ages 4-8, among other things. There was a story about Lucas Wallmark attending a local youth hockey practice session. Brock McGinn and Warren Foegele also participated at different times. This is all relatively new, and certainly more prominent since Dundon took over.
The Carolina Hurricanes Foundation (formerly Kids n’ Community) has increased the size and quantity of Future Canes Grant recipients (dedicated almost exclusively to youth hockey programs). And these are just the examples off of the top of my head.
Look, Tom Dundon is no saint and he might even be an asshole. But he’s our asshole and the changes he’s making to the operation of this franchise appear to be having a net positive impact. I’ll continue to take a wait and see stance, but I like what I’ve see so far.
The team is exciting, last season was fun,there is a lot of pride buzzing around town,I may speculate, because what else is there to do during offseason, but I’m looking forward to the fall y’all.