Matt Duchene is FINALLY traded
Yesterday, it was announced that the Colorado Avalanche had traded Matt Duchene to Ottawa in a three-way deal that also saw Kyle Turris sent to Nashville and Colorado netting a king’s ransom of futures. Using Steve Yzerman like card trick magic, Sakic somehow managed to get fair value or more despite the fact that he seemed to be behind the eight ball for months now. In total, the Avalanche collected first round picks from 2011 (Shane Bowers) and 2018, second round picks from 2016 (Samuel Girard) and 2018 and a third round pick from 2019 in addition to goalie Andrew Hammond and prospect Vadislav Kamenev. Joe Sakic did not receive the NHL-ready defenseman that was long part of the demands, but he did manage to get seven players for a player that everyone in the NHL knew he had trade.
The history from a Hurricanes perspective
I first wrote about the possibility of the Hurricanes acquiring Matt Duchene just after the calendar flipped to 2017 and before the trade deadline approached and Duchene’s name was everywhere.
Though I coveted Matt Duchene and his ability to add a true playmaking center, I was tempted but never quite willing to trade a young roster NHL defenseman. My bidding stopped at Haydn Fleury plus futures.
So should Ron Francis have acted?
I do not think so. Somehow Sakic faked negotiating leverage and received a sizable return for Duchene. As much I think Francis came up one player short this summer in not adding anything from the ‘playmaking center’ category, I would not have been willing to pay what it would have required to win Duchene this week. The sheer volume of futures was just too high to justify.
So are there possibilities for a plan B?
There are actually. Alex Galchenyuk has found his way back into the dog house in Montreal and also into the news with word that he has battled substance abuse issues. I have no idea what to make of the new news and also no idea to what degree Francis could get a read on the situation. That complication aside, Galchenyuk continues to fit the bill as a potential scoring line center though not without risk given his ups and downs in Montreal and questions about his two-way play.
Once the Edmonton Oilers made the math work for 2017-18, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins became more likely to play the 2017-18 with the Oilers and then hit the trade market next summer to free up the salary needed to pay Edmonton’s young guns. But with the Oilers mired in a scoring slump and near the bottom of the NHL, the team might suddenly be willing to deal Nugent-Hopkins again.
Past the two carry overs from the offseason, timing is starting to be right to put calls into any teams struggling in the standings in hopes that they are ready to make a move or two that makes another scoring center available.
What say you Canes fans?
1) Do you feel like Francis missed out on Matt Duchene? Or was there just never a deal for a reasonable price to be had there?
2) Do you have a plan B who you like to add a scoring-oriented center via trade, or do you think it is up to the team to improve scoring from within?
Go Canes!
After seeing what the Avs got for Duchene, I now understand Francis’ hesitancy. Don’t think he is worth what it would have taken to get him.
I’ve been onboard with trying to get Galchenyuk from the beginning and think he might be available at a discount relative to what he may have cost over the summer.
Amother interesting possibility , though not a center, is James van Riemsdyk. Toronto D is a dumpster fire and they probably won’t be able to afford to resign him after this year.
We are not likely to land the big scorer, so I’d dangle any one or two of the following: Faulk, Rask, Tuevo, Ward, Kruger, Nordy, a mix of Charlotte players and/or futures for the following:
Sam Bennett (CGY) – Talented young center who was a top 5 pick, is struggling and needs change of scenery, swap for young player.
Sam Reinhart (BUF) – Talented young center who was a top 5 pick, is struggling and needs change of scenery, swap for young player.
Anthony Duclair (ARZ) – Talented young LW who is former 20-goal scorer, swap for young player.
RNH (EDM) – Bigger trade, would take more but may be worth it depending on return.
Ryan O’Reilly (BUF) – More of a longshot, but an ideal a net presence.
James Neal (VGN) – Perfect combo of finisher/net presence, can always trade him at deadline if we are still out of the race.
…if we need to backfill defense, there are plenty of veteran defenseman to be had for cheap if needed (Garrison for one). Likewise, Zykov and Wallmark can backfill offensively if needed.
We need to keep Kruger. Takes some responsibility off Staal’s shoulders. Nordstrom is worth absolutely nothing. I haven’t heard anything about Reinhart or Bennett being available, I would be slightly surprised to see either moved, especially on somewhat of a discount which is the only way that a trade for them would be justifiable due to said struggles. It’s far more likely Buffalo and Calgary ride it out and try to let them break through internally.
Adding, just calling up a player from Charlotte will be short-lived IMO. Any shakeup right now, even a small trade is a good one. We’ll have to part with probably someone we don’t want, but that is part of making a hockey trade (the other team needs to fill a hole as well).
We’ve seen the chemistry with the current group, it’s not working. Time for a new face and some new chemistry.
I would be the Predators in that deal. A 2nd round pick, a 2nd defender from last year, and 21 year old AHL winger that may develop for Turris on a 6 yr extension. Sign me up. Years 5 and 6 may be rough but we get a legitimate scoring number 2 center. Unlike any of our other 4 number 2 centers *snicker*. We keep all of current players and add a 50-60 point scorer? Oh well, Im guessing Nashville isn’t the reason the first one fell through.
Based on our past, I don’t see us making any big moves. We could try a “hoping” trade like Bennet or Reinhart. Hope they live up to potential. We’ll be bad enough to just miss the playoffs and good enough to be out of top pick range.
Please tell me you didn’t just include Derek Ryan as a number two center. Maybe in the AHL, where he belongs.This team’s center depth just sucks. Staal is best suited as a second/third line checker. Rask is probably best suited in a third line role as well. We have nothing that looks like a true top 6 center offensive to me. Nothing. No wonder we won’t be in the playoffs, again.
Top-6 offensive center, that should’ve said.
Yup, I think the Peditors probably did best in this. Duchene can leave in a year and a half. Ottawa could be hurting after that.
I guess it is like any trade, could work, could be a bust for any of them.
I think I’d rather dump Bill Peters, and make sure the answer isn’t already in the lineup in Rask/Lindholm/Aho. We saw what Peters did to Eric Staal’s game. What if it’s the same thing happening to Victor Rask to a smaller degree. Or maybe Elias could play Center in a normal system instead of whatever nonsense it is Peters is running.
Francis has assembled quite a bit of talent on the roster, and I’d rather see if the coach who only loses is the problem rather than start giving up on the players.
1) The price for Duchene was too high.
2) We have to either trade or develop from within for playmaking centers (we could use 2), but we don’t seem to be doing either with urgency.
Unless there is a pending trade we don’t know about, Aho should be moved to center asap. Yea he is not so good in the faceoff circle and has things to learn, but if he is physically ready we need the playmaking. Necas is our second best candidate right now, at a couple years away, unless Nic Roy blossoms in the interim.
The key strategic tradeoff to be made is do we start now with the right pieces to be a Stanley Cup contender in a couple years, or do everything we can to be make the playoffs this year (and then next etc). The actions to take our different depending on the goal and the interim requirements to get to the goal.
1. RF didn’t miss out on Duchene. I think Sakic has evolved since the summer and actually he got less in real assets than if we had traded him Hanifin, Fleury or Faulk in a deal. These being rumored as part of any offer we would (or did) make. What did he get? A bunch of young maybes, a couple of draft picks, and a backup goalie. If I had Duchene, I sure would have wanted a young NHL ready defenseman as part of any deal.
2. Plan B (my Plan A all along). Bring Zykov up to help get some net presence. He’s the square peg we need for the square hole in front of the net. Bring up Wallmark to increase the scoring ability of the team. These moves might also get some of the complacency out of the players currently on the team. RF needs to start holding Peters accountable. Fire him if necessary. Peters has these players playing not to make a defensive mistake and that has turned this team into a perimeter playing outfit. He doesn’t play his best players, he plays what I would call ridiculous “hunches”. Three years for a coach and GM to start seeing NOTICEABLE IMPROVEMENT is enough. Karmanos isn’t the problem with accomplishing any of the above. If he has any constraints as far as salaries are concerned, that just shows he is stringing the fan base along and RF is part of the scam. If that is the case, why should we, the fans and season ticket holders, continue to care. They have our money for this year and instead of earning it, they are extorting it with the threat that we must continue to support the team if we want hockey in Raleigh.
Sure. If you think every prospect you have is going to fill his potential, giving up too many futures can hurt. And it would suck to trade say, Hanifin, and see him finally put it together and develop into a star. But here’s the thing: that’s not how it always works. Half these prospects won’t pan out. Look at Hanifin: he was supposed to be an NHL-ready, surefire stud defenseman. It already looks like Werenski or Provorov would have been better picks. Duchene is a star center that adds a lot of scoring punch that the Canes desperately need. If the plan is to keep trotting out multiple fourth liners like Derek Ryan in top 9 roles, there’s a problem. At some point you should cash in some of that prospect capital when the opportunity arises. Its over and done with. Whatever. But this team needs changes, now. Before the hole is too deep. Again.
You’re really going to judge a 20 year old defensemen? Really? Were you at your full potential at age 20
Ron Francis does not make, and should not make, moves just because fans are frustrated that we haven’t made the playoffs. You don’t make the playoffs consistently with shortcuts. Yes we have the prospects should make a move, but it is generally not a good idea to make a move, just for the sake of making a move.
All that being said, that’s not to say that disappointed fans won’t be placated. It will just be Bill Peters head on a plate, not Ron’s not any of the players (Save probably Derek Ryan, because as much as he’s an amazing story, he is a tad overmatched on even the third line)
Maybe I’ve just rooted for losing teams for too long, but the sometimes a fanbase’s ‘entitlement’ to a winning team is kind of laughable. 50% of the teams are going to lose, its just math. This is a team that needs to learn how to win. It clearly does not know how. And I’m not sure Bill Peters knows how.
All that being said, the multi-year outlook for this team continues to be outstanding. Blowing young prospects and picks for veterans who have had good seasons in the past and might maybe be good in the future is not a path to consistent winning. It’s a path to feel better about the fact that you root for a loser because hey, ‘at least they did something’
Nashville was the winner there. Duchene is better than Turis, but not substantially more. Turis would have been a guy I would have traded for. Nashville gave up much less to get him. That’s the only way Colorado cpould have made that work. Nobody was single-handedly giving up what he wanted. Ottawa gave up a ton for a small upgrade.
If I were RF I would be trying to get RNH from the Oil. He would be a great fit and I think he would excel here. Offer – Faulk, Rask and a 3rd for RNH and a 4th.
Id stay away from Galchenyuk. I think he would have been moved already… But the substance abuse thing has been around for a few seasons.
1) I believe the cost would have been too high. This was two teams throwing futures at Colorado. You could always ask why were we not involved with something like that. The problem is, for all we know, we were. We only see the outcome and have no visibility as to other offers/deals.
2) live_free_or_die had a good list. I think a lot of us feel the present group is not working. I would love to see something but RF does not do too many trades so the only real thing I see is bringing up Wallmark, Zykov and/or Foegele who may be able to make a difference and sit some of the other guys.
I feel the way RR does, like we are being strung along. We have given this regime enough time. It is time for accountability, players, coaching and GM. I also am scratching my head on some of BP’s moves. Looks like desperation, at least for the coaches, not for the players.
I truly felt we would be better then this. That AZ game was what pushed me over the edge.
After questioning his thinking since the Summer, I give Joe Sakic a ton of credit for leveraging not one, but two team’s eagerness to spend big to win a Cup now. Yes, bwstanley is right that not all prospects pan out, but some sure do, and the odds are in Sakic’s favor, especially when you factor in that Duchene has only one more year on his deal. The price was too high and GMRF did the right thing by not overpaying.
I’m not in panic-mode yet. I’d call up Wallmark and Zykov, shake things up a bit, and see what happens. There aren’t many names out there worth overpaying for, which is what it would take to land a difference-maker, even one in the doghouse. The only rental that is intriguing to me that would change our style of play is Evander Kane.
I think the fan-base is in full-panic-mode already. I’m not, maybe naively. We aren’t as bad as we’ve played recently. It will improve from here. Mostly because it can’t get worse.
Kinda hard to keep your finger off the trigger when this season that was supposed to be different is.. much the same. I’m trying not to get full panic mode, but its SO hard to climb into the playoff picture. We’ve seen it for how many years now? This team just cannot win early.
I agree, it’s hard to climb back. I take some consolation from having a few games in hand, but we do have to start winning.
I’m not really sure how much any of the prospects are worth…on our Charlotte team…! As they say “cream rises to the top”, but all I’ve seen is a bit SOUR! If none of them can beat out some of these slugs…then why be concerned about trading a bunch of ’em?
Turris and Duchene might have been the only REAL PLAYERS of note in that whole “gaggle”! Prospects frequently FAIL TO BLOSSOM…
JUST LIKE MANY OF THE CHECKERS, past and present.
Now Duchene has played one year (82 games) with Ott, scored 40 goals and 48 assists for 88 points.
There has been a conception that trading for Duchene was a total fail and that he has not lived up to expectations. On the contrary, I wish the Canes could’ve pulled off that move.
Aho is fantastic so I am not overly regretful but the notion that Duchene has not worked out with the Sens is wrong. He’s done everything expected of a first line center.